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    Morals & Conscience in action

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    ameliorate
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    Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  ameliorate on Wed May 14, 2014 7:01 pm

    I had an experience today that got me thinking on this topic.  I wonder what you would do in this situation.

    I was in a supermarket when I saw a deluxe chocolate torte - normally around £4 - greatly reduced! Not down to £2 or so but 59p!! I could hardly believe it so I put it in my shopping basket. After I had paid for it, (and still in the store) I looked at the receipt, to find it said "black cherry yogurt 59p". That's when I realised that someone had obviously put this label on it...perhaps intending to buy it. (There was a worker in that section when I saw the torte). I paused very briefly, since I knew it was morally wrong to keep it, but then I saw it as a lucky opportunity, i.e. my weak morals on this gave way to the precedence of greed! If it had been in a charity shop then my conscience would have kicked in. As it is I don't have a lot of respect for commercial companies who make a fat profit from consumers.

    What would you have done? I realise returning it would have been problematic since, how would they know it wasn't me which changed the label in the first place?

    Let me give another scenario and ask what you would do. If someone dropped a paper note of money (say £10 in UK...don't know the equivalent in other countries) and they hadn't noticed it - would you point it out to them or hope they would go away and you would take it...assuming no-one else saw this? Or would it depend on who the person was, e.g. elderly or someone well off? I would defo give it back.


    Last edited by ameliorate on Wed May 14, 2014 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  SpiritVoices on Wed May 14, 2014 8:39 pm

    ameliorate wrote:I had an experience today that got me thinking on this topic.  I wonder what you would do in this situation.

    I was in a supermarket when I saw a deluxe chocolate torte - normally around £4 - greatly reduced! Not down to £2 or so but 59p!! I could hardly believe it so I put it in my shopping basket. After I had paid for it, I looked at the receipt, to find it said "black cherry yogurt 59p". That's when I realised that someone had obviously put this label on it...perhaps intending to buy it. (There was a worker in that section when I saw the torte). I paused very briefly, since I knew it was morally wrong to keep it, but then I saw it as a lucky opportunity, i.e. my weak morals on this gave way to the precedence of greed! If it had been in a charity shop then my conscience would have kicked in. As it is I don't have a lot of respect for commercial companies who make a fat profit from consumers.

    What would you have done? I realise returning it would have been problematic since, how would they know it wasn't me which changed the label in the first place?

    Let me give another scenario and ask what you would do. If someone dropped a paper note of money (say £10 in UK...don't know the equivalent in other countries) and they hadn't noticed it - would you point it out to them or hope they would go away and you would take it...assuming no-one else saw this? Or would it depend on who the person was, e.g. elderly or someone well off? I would defo give it back.

    Had a chuckle at your topic,Amy...lol
    I would have done the same as you....
    Talking about paper money...Someone said to me a while ago after finding a £5 note on the ground. I was over overjoyed then someone rattled a charity tin right in my face!
    I hesitated then conscience took over and I dropped it into the tin.
    The remark I received from my friend was....'God was watching you then'!

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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  ameliorate on Wed May 14, 2014 8:53 pm

    The Lord giveth...the lord taketh away ....  :SH: 
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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  Crystal on Wed May 14, 2014 9:21 pm

    Once when I was leaving a supermarket I saw my child had grabbed a small box of tissues on the way by that I obviously hadn't paid for or even known that he had grabbed. So,  I went back and explained at customer services and gave them the box. OMG 50 minutes later, one screaming child, me late to pick my other child up at school and security guards watching my every move. Wish I had just kept on walking!

    Hope you enjoyed the cake!

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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  skye on Wed May 14, 2014 9:54 pm

    I recall being a teenager and being short of money, I chose not be honest and refused to hand back a £5.00 note to a shopkeeper whom I knew well. I had a great night out, but the incident had a significant impact on me. In one way the consequences were such that it was certainly not worth the £5.00 that I deliberately stole.    

    Is a wrong doing considered to be more of a wrong, when you know it is wrong? This is not said to make a judgement on your actions ameliorate or towards anyone else. 

    A couple of years ago I ordered some products on line. When they were delivered it was obvious an error had been made. I received a clothes airer which I had not ordered. Strangely enough though I was in need of one as mine had recently broke.  I was unsure whether to inform the firm but I chose to be honest and telephoned the firm explaining what had happened. I was told to hold the line whilst she spoke to her manager. When she came back, I was asked if I could make use of the clothes airer. The manager said not many people would report that they had received extra products so they chose to offer it to me for free. I was delighted with the result especially as at the time I was in need of one. 
         
    Going back to your post, I don't think the shop would have placed blame at your feet if you had told them, genuine mistakes must often happen.
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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  ameliorate on Wed May 14, 2014 10:52 pm

    Thanks for your post skye.  I don't really feel guilty about not owning up to being at the
    receiving end of someone's potential crime!  I am seeing that conscience is directly related
    to what morals we hold, e.g. the fact that I don't have a high opinion of commercial companies.

    On another spiritual forum I placed this same thread.  Someone I wasn't expecting to reply,
    since he openly announces he has no morals ("no wrongdoing") said he gave some money
    back that he found but, clearly, expected some recompense for this.  Since none was offered,
    he says the next time he'll just keep the money! 

    I can understand this a little. When I found a purse with something inside that enabled me
    to do a little phoning around and thereby tracing its owner, I did expect something when
    I finally dropped it off to her.  (It had about £30 in it plus some added sentimental trinkets).
    It appeared that no reward would have been forthcoming but for the searching look I gave her.
    Reluctantly, she gave me £5 and a look!  I did feel that I had gone out of my way to return
    it, i.e. had put in a fair bit of effort (both in finding out who it was and visiting her).   Perhaps
    a better person would not have wanted any reward at all.  What do members here think?
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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  Violet on Wed May 14, 2014 11:23 pm

    Re the few pence I wouldnt have worried about that the mistake was not yours and you bought in good faith, re paper money, I seem to be telling folk a lot lately that there's one hanging out of their pocket, if I saw some one drop one I'd call them and hand it back.



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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  kardecian on Wed May 14, 2014 11:36 pm

    Well, you didn't intentionally short the store.  You didn't shop lift, but you paid the price that you thought the item was supposed to be. So, this was not intentional on your part.
    If I saw someone drop some cash, I'd definitely return it to them and not keep is.  That's how I'd want someone to treat me.
    You said something that I don't think is spot on. You said " I don't have a lot of respect for commercial companies who make a fat profit from consumers." 
    Supermarkets are not high profit ventures. There's a lot of competition out there when it comes to supermarkets (grocery stores).  They are not high profit ventures by any stretch of the imagination. 
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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  ameliorate on Wed May 14, 2014 11:45 pm

    Crystal wrote:Once when I was leaving a supermarket I saw my child had grabbed a small box of tissues on the way by that I obviously hadn't paid for or even known that he had grabbed. So,  I went back and explained at customer services and gave them the box. OMG 50 minutes later, one screaming child, me late to pick my other child up at school and security guards watching my every move. Wish I had just kept on walking!

    Hope you enjoyed the cake!
    Ha...I hear you!   Yes it was gorgeous - devoured half of it already!  :faint: 
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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  ameliorate on Wed May 14, 2014 11:52 pm

    kardecian wrote:
    Supermarkets are not high profit ventures. There's a lot of competition out there when it comes to supermarkets (grocery stores).  They are not high profit ventures by any stretch of the imagination. 
    I know about smaller stores competing.  The shop was Waitrose, i.e. at the high end of the supermarket game.
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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  Lion L on Thu May 15, 2014 6:45 pm

    I wouldn't lose any sleep over it Amy.  How many times have you been diddled by big businesses?
    Share the wealth.
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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  partofme on Thu May 15, 2014 7:00 pm

    ameliorate wrote:I had an experience today that got me thinking on this topic.  I wonder what you would do in this situation.

    I was in a supermarket when I saw a deluxe chocolate torte - normally around £4 - greatly reduced! Not down to £2 or so but 59p!! I could hardly believe it so I put it in my shopping basket. After I had paid for it, (and still in the store) I looked at the receipt, to find it said "black cherry yogurt 59p". That's when I realised that someone had obviously put this label on it...perhaps intending to buy it. (There was a worker in that section when I saw the torte). I paused very briefly, since I knew it was morally wrong to keep it, but then I saw it as a lucky opportunity, i.e. my weak morals on this gave way to the precedence of greed! If it had been in a charity shop then my conscience would have kicked in. As it is I don't have a lot of respect for commercial companies who make a fat profit from consumers.

    What would you have done? I realise returning it would have been problematic since, how would they know it wasn't me which changed the label in the first place?

    Let me give another scenario and ask what you would do. If someone dropped a paper note of money (say £10 in UK...don't know the equivalent in other countries) and they hadn't noticed it - would you point it out to them or hope they would go away and you would take it...assuming no-one else saw this? Or would it depend on who the person was, e.g. elderly or someone well off? I would defo give it back.
    Well normally I would return it if I werent in a hurry. As for them thinking it was me...If it were I wouldnt of returned it in the first place so I dont think that would of kept me from doing so.  
    As for the $$, We live paycheck to paycheck.  I without a doubt would of mentioned it to them no matter age, people witnessing, ect.  
    Im one that goes back into a store if I get an overpayment in change. Instilling these values within my children (even if their not with me) guilt me into making the right choices always.  
    Not trying to seem saint like but I truly feel like what goes around comes back around. Good or bad.
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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  kardecian on Fri May 16, 2014 11:15 pm

    Yes, Waitrose is a fancy shmancy business.  But, I don't agree with the sentiment that it's OK to short-change a business just because it's successful. I get the impression that some feel it's OK to take advantage of those who are richer than us.  "Sharing the Wealth" should only be done voluntarily. No one deserves to be short-changed or ripped off, even the rich and successful.  Stealing is stealing, whether one is stealing from the rich or from the poor.

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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  skye on Fri May 16, 2014 11:22 pm

    I know when I receive an estimated electric bill and gas bill, if it isn't the same number as I read on the meter I contact the firm whether the numbers are higher than the estimation or not.
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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  ameliorate on Sat May 17, 2014 12:02 am

    kardecian wrote:Yes, Waitrose is a fancy shmancy business.  But, I don't agree with the sentiment that it's OK to short-change a business just because it's successful. I get the impression that some feel it's OK to take advantage of those who are richer than us.  "Sharing the Wealth" should only be done voluntarily. No one deserves to be short-changed or ripped off, even the rich and successful.  Stealing is stealing, whether one is stealing from the rich or from the poor.
    Would you regard what occurred (in Waitrose) as stealing?  I think it is a grey area since I didn't realise anything underhanded had occurred until after I paid for it, i.e. looked at the receipt.  You would have returned the item then and risked them not believing that it wasn't you that switched the label?

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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  skye on Sat May 17, 2014 12:26 am

    ameliorate wrote:
    kardecian wrote:Yes, Waitrose is a fancy shmancy business.  But, I don't agree with the sentiment that it's OK to short-change a business just because it's successful. I get the impression that some feel it's OK to take advantage of those who are richer than us.  "Sharing the Wealth" should only be done voluntarily. No one deserves to be short-changed or ripped off, even the rich and successful.  Stealing is stealing, whether one is stealing from the rich or from the poor.
    Would you regard what occurred (in Waitrose) as stealing?  I think it is a grey area since I didn't realise anything underhanded had occurred until after I paid for it, i.e. looked at the receipt.  You would have returned the item then and risked them not believing that it wasn't you that switched the label?
    The question of stealing comes about after the event when the realisation dawns of a mistake having been made. It wouldn't matter what they would have thought of you, you had nothing to hide as you knew the truth, in that you didn't switch the price tag.
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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  ameliorate on Sat May 17, 2014 1:14 am

    skye wrote:
    ameliorate wrote:
    kardecian wrote:Yes, Waitrose is a fancy shmancy business.  But, I don't agree with the sentiment that it's OK to short-change a business just because it's successful. I get the impression that some feel it's OK to take advantage of those who are richer than us.  "Sharing the Wealth" should only be done voluntarily. No one deserves to be short-changed or ripped off, even the rich and successful.  Stealing is stealing, whether one is stealing from the rich or from the poor.
    Would you regard what occurred (in Waitrose) as stealing?  I think it is a grey area since I didn't realise anything underhanded had occurred until after I paid for it, i.e. looked at the receipt.  You would have returned the item then and risked them not believing that it wasn't you that switched the label?
    The question of stealing comes about after the event when the realisation dawns of a mistake having been made. It wouldn't matter what they would have thought of you, you had nothing to hide as you knew the truth, in that you didn't switch the price tag.
    You're missing the point.  It's not about what they think of me but whether they BELIEVE that it wasn't me that switched the label, i.e. by trying to do the "right thing" and take the item back to the cashier, I may inadvertently have been seen as being the original culprit.  I wasn't prepared to take that risk....would you????

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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  skye on Sat May 17, 2014 3:16 am

    ameliorate wrote:
    skye wrote:
    ameliorate wrote:
    kardecian wrote:Yes, Waitrose is a fancy shmancy business.  But, I don't agree with the sentiment that it's OK to short-change a business just because it's successful. I get the impression that some feel it's OK to take advantage of those who are richer than us.  "Sharing the Wealth" should only be done voluntarily. No one deserves to be short-changed or ripped off, even the rich and successful.  Stealing is stealing, whether one is stealing from the rich or from the poor.
    Would you regard what occurred (in Waitrose) as stealing?  I think it is a grey area since I didn't realise anything underhanded had occurred until after I paid for it, i.e. looked at the receipt.  You would have returned the item then and risked them not believing that it wasn't you that switched the label?
    The question of stealing comes about after the event when the realisation dawns of a mistake having been made. It wouldn't matter what they would have thought of you, you had nothing to hide as you knew the truth, in that you didn't switch the price tag.
    You're missing the point.  It's not about what they think of me but whether they BELIEVE that it wasn't me that switched the label, i.e. by trying to do the "right thing" and take the item back to the cashier, I may inadvertently have been seen as being the original culprit.  I wasn't prepared to take that risk....would you????

    No, I don't think I am missing the point.  It seems to be that the fear of not being believed is much stronger than the act of taking the cake back to the cashier to say the wrong price was charged. I honestly can't think of one good reason as to why they would have believed you had switched the price tag? And, yes I would have taken the risk, not that I would have perceived it as being a risk. 
    Whatever a person may believe or think about you in any situation is out of your control, it's their business. And it's their thoughts or beliefs only, this doesn't mean their opinions or beliefs about you are true, does it?
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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  innerlight on Sat May 17, 2014 3:47 am

    Had I have still been in the store and noticed the error, I would have told them about the mistake. And paid the difference..  I have pointed out those things when I am ringing things up and noticed if its not proper. Had I had gotten home with it. I probably wouldn't have gone back. Of course that is, had I looked at the receipt. Most times I do not. 

    As for the money on the ground. If I saw someone drop it, I would tell them they dropped something. I've even returned wallets before. Just the other day I was walking and glanced down and saw $15 bucks on the ground with no one around and just kept on walking..
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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  1antique on Sat May 17, 2014 6:36 am

    I have, more than once, returned to a store to inform them of a mistake....the latest time just a few days ago when a cashier charged me almost half price on a couple a Pepsi's.

    Also, if I see another drop money...even change...I either point it out to them, or I will pick it up and hand it back. I cannot help to think how I would feel if someone took my money when I dropped it. There are too many people out there who are barely making ends meet as it is without somebody taking their money.
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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  Lion L on Sat May 17, 2014 9:00 am

    kardecian wrote:Yes, Waitrose is a fancy shmancy business.  But, I don't agree with the sentiment that it's OK to short-change a business just because it's successful. I get the impression that some feel it's OK to take advantage of those who are richer than us.  "Sharing the Wealth" should only be done voluntarily. No one deserves to be short-changed or ripped off, even the rich and successful.  Stealing is stealing, whether one is stealing from the rich or from the poor.

    In my opinion it is more than fair to take from the rich and give to the poor.
    If sharing the wealth was only done voluntarily then the gap between the multi-billionaires and those on minimum wage would grow ever larger, as we see when the rich leave Britain for some low tax country, such as the USA, so that they don't have to give up their money to help support the NHS or state funded schools.
    If the wealth is not shared fairly by the government then the people will redistribute it themselves.
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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  ameliorate on Sat May 17, 2014 10:09 am

    skye wrote:
    ameliorate wrote:
    skye wrote:
    ameliorate wrote:
    kardecian wrote:Yes, Waitrose is a fancy shmancy business.  But, I don't agree with the sentiment that it's OK to short-change a business just because it's successful. I get the impression that some feel it's OK to take advantage of those who are richer than us.  "Sharing the Wealth" should only be done voluntarily. No one deserves to be short-changed or ripped off, even the rich and successful.  Stealing is stealing, whether one is stealing from the rich or from the poor.
    Would you regard what occurred (in Waitrose) as stealing?  I think it is a grey area since I didn't realise anything underhanded had occurred until after I paid for it, i.e. looked at the receipt.  You would have returned the item then and risked them not believing that it wasn't you that switched the label?
    The question of stealing comes about after the event when the realisation dawns of a mistake having been made. It wouldn't matter what they would have thought of you, you had nothing to hide as you knew the truth, in that you didn't switch the price tag.
    You're missing the point.  It's not about what they think of me but whether they BELIEVE that it wasn't me that switched the label, i.e. by trying to do the "right thing" and take the item back to the cashier, I may inadvertently have been seen as being the original culprit.  I wasn't prepared to take that risk....would you????

    No, I don't think I am missing the point.  It seems to be that the fear of not being believed is much stronger than the act of taking the cake back to the cashier to say the wrong price was charged. I honestly can't think of one good reason as to why they would have believed you had switched the price tag? And, yes I would have taken the risk, not that I would have perceived it as being a risk. 
    Whatever a person may believe or think about you in any situation is out of your control, it's their business. And it's their thoughts or beliefs only, this doesn't mean their opinions or beliefs about you are true, does it?
    Supermarkets get ripped off all the time...and you think they would have believed me?  I don't CARE what they think of me - I was concerned about the consequences of them thinking I had committed a crime and changed my mind.
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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  ameliorate on Sat May 17, 2014 10:11 am

    Lion L wrote:
    kardecian wrote:Yes, Waitrose is a fancy shmancy business.  But, I don't agree with the sentiment that it's OK to short-change a business just because it's successful. I get the impression that some feel it's OK to take advantage of those who are richer than us.  "Sharing the Wealth" should only be done voluntarily. No one deserves to be short-changed or ripped off, even the rich and successful.  Stealing is stealing, whether one is stealing from the rich or from the poor.

    In my opinion it is more than fair to take from the rich and give to the poor.
    If sharing the wealth was only done voluntarily then the gap between the multi-billionaires and those on minimum wage would grow ever larger, as we see when the rich leave Britain for some low tax country, such as the USA, so that they don't have to give up their money to help support the NHS or state funded schools.
    If the wealth is not shared fairly by the government then the people will redistribute it themselves.
     :rainbow:

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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  skye on Sat May 17, 2014 10:47 am

    ameliorate wrote:
    skye wrote:
    ameliorate wrote:
    skye wrote:
    ameliorate wrote:
    Would you regard what occurred (in Waitrose) as stealing?  I think it is a grey area since I didn't realise anything underhanded had occurred until after I paid for it, i.e. looked at the receipt.  You would have returned the item then and risked them not believing that it wasn't you that switched the label?
    The question of stealing comes about after the event when the realisation dawns of a mistake having been made. It wouldn't matter what they would have thought of you, you had nothing to hide as you knew the truth, in that you didn't switch the price tag.
    You're missing the point.  It's not about what they think of me but whether they BELIEVE that it wasn't me that switched the label, i.e. by trying to do the "right thing" and take the item back to the cashier, I may inadvertently have been seen as being the original culprit.  I wasn't prepared to take that risk....would you????

    No, I don't think I am missing the point.  It seems to be that the fear of not being believed is much stronger than the act of taking the cake back to the cashier to say the wrong price was charged. I honestly can't think of one good reason as to why they would have believed you had switched the price tag? And, yes I would have taken the risk, not that I would have perceived it as being a risk. 
    Whatever a person may believe or think about you in any situation is out of your control, it's their business. And it's their thoughts or beliefs only, this doesn't mean their opinions or beliefs about you are true, does it?
    Supermarkets get ripped off all the time...and you think they would have believed me?  I don't CARE what they think of me - I was concerned about the consequences of them thinking I had committed a crime and changed my mind.

    Supermarkets may well get ripped off all the time, it's a risk they all take in their business. I don't see this has a reason as to why people should rip them of myself. You say you don't care what they think of you, yet you are concerned they would accuse you of committing a crime and you would pay the consequences. Perhaps you are being both judge and jury on your behalf and over exaggerating the situation or reading too deeply into it. Yes, they could have thought you were a thief who had had seconds thoughts about committing a crime. Or, they could have thought, what an honest lady she is, to come back and offer to pay the extra money which she was undercharged.
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    Lion L
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    Number of posts : 57
    Age : 45
    Location : East Midlands, England, UK
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    Registration date : 2014-05-15

    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

    Post  Lion L on Sat May 17, 2014 11:02 am

    Skye
    You say you don't care what they think of you, yet you are concerned they would accuse you of committing a crime and you would pay the consequences...
    What constitutes a 'crime' is what the government judge to be so.  The government are much more concerned with the interests of big business than with the poor.  Therefore, it is a 'crime' to take a few pence from a milti-billion company but not for that same company to charge exorbitant prices for their goods.
    In my opinion, man made laws which protect wealth are not the same as god given laws (ie conscience) which encourage us to help others who are less fortunate than ourselves.

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    Re: Morals & Conscience in action

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