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    The Tarot

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    Crystal
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    The Tarot

    Post  Crystal on Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:23 pm

    I don't know what you missed but in summary I asked Tarot practitioners to explain exactly what it is that they do.  I asked a similar set of questions on a number of websites. 

    By all means start a different thread because discussing Tarot would be a distraction from the topic of this one.

    There is a really interesting thread over on the Mediumship board that discusses different aspects of reading and the confusion that seems to be around the difference of what is and what isn't a reading etc.  So as not to distract from that discussion I thought I would open a thread here to see if we can discuss Tarot in a similar way.

    Personally I don't ever use the word practitioner with regards to Tarot. I think it is easier to say Tarot Reader, Tarot Teacher or even Tarot Master and leave practitioner to therapies.

    Not sure what the question is exactly "what it is that they do?" Maybe if I throw a few ideas out there then we might see if the discussion takes off or not?

    1. Anyone can learn to read the Tarot.  You do not need to be a believer, spiritual, psychic or a medium or even have a good memory, but you do need to understand what the Tarot is and how to read it, otherwise you may just as well use pictures cut from a magazine or postcards.

    2. There are layers of depth to the Tarot, from scraping the surface and just looking at the pictures to using the symbology and learning the arcane lessons.

    3. There is nothing evil about the Tarot only evil readers!



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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  mac on Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:57 pm

    Crystal wrote:
    I don't know what you missed but in summary I asked Tarot practitioners to explain exactly what it is that they do.  I asked a similar set of questions on a number of websites. 

    By all means start a different thread because discussing Tarot would be a distraction from the topic of this one.

    There is a really interesting thread over on the Mediumship board that discusses different aspects of reading and the confusion that seems to be around the difference of what is and what isn't a reading etc.  So as not to distract from that discussion I thought I would open a thread here to see if we can discuss Tarot in a similar way.

    Personally I don't ever use the word practitioner with regards to Tarot. I think it is easier to say Tarot Reader, Tarot Teacher or even Tarot Master and leave practitioner to therapies.

    Not sure what the question is exactly "what it is that they do?" Maybe if I throw a few ideas out there then we might see if the discussion takes off or not?

    1. Anyone can learn to read the Tarot.  You do not need to be a believer, spiritual, psychic or a medium or even have a good memory, but you do need to understand what the Tarot is and how to read it, otherwise you may just as well use pictures cut from a magazine or postcards.

    2. There are layers of depth to the Tarot, from scraping the surface and just looking at the pictures to using the symbology and learning the arcane lessons.

    3. There is nothing evil about the Tarot only evil readers!


    A simple definition of practitioner:  "One who practices something, especially an occupation, profession, or technique."  I see nothing wrong with using the word 'practitioner' as a general term for anyone using Tarot, be they a reader, teacher or master.

    I asked a very simple question "...
    in summary I asked Tarot practitioners to explain exactly what it is that they do".  I didn't ask who can do it or learn to do it.  I didn't ask about the complexities of the technique.  I didn't suggest there is anything evil about either Tarot or its readers.... None of the points above answer the question about what a Tarot reader actually does.

    May I give a simple comparison?  Ask what an evidential medium does and one answer might be "I try to help the bereaved by explaining that their loved ones who have passed over are still alive and well.  If their loved ones approach me when I am sitting with the seeker(s) I will try to communicate and pass on whatever evidence they give to show their identity." 

    So if I were to ask the question again about what a Tarot reader does, could anyone give a similarly simple answer?

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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  Auras on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:01 pm

    Crystal wrote:
    I don't know what you missed but in summary I asked Tarot practitioners to explain exactly what it is that they do.  I asked a similar set of questions on a number of websites. 

    By all means start a different thread because discussing Tarot would be a distraction from the topic of this one.

    There is a really interesting thread over on the Mediumship board that discusses different aspects of reading and the confusion that seems to be around the difference of what is and what isn't a reading etc.  So as not to distract from that discussion I thought I would open a thread here to see if we can discuss Tarot in a similar way.

    Personally I don't ever use the word practitioner with regards to Tarot. I think it is easier to say Tarot Reader, Tarot Teacher or even Tarot Master and leave practitioner to therapies.

    Not sure what the question is exactly "what it is that they do?" Maybe if I throw a few ideas out there then we might see if the discussion takes off or not?

    1. Anyone can learn to read the Tarot.  You do not need to be a believer, spiritual, psychic or a medium or even have a good memory, but you do need to understand what the Tarot is and how to read it, otherwise you may just as well use pictures cut from a magazine or postcards.

    2. There are layers of depth to the Tarot, from scraping the surface and just looking at the pictures to using the symbology and learning the arcane lessons.

    3. There is nothing evil about the Tarot only evil readers!


    That is your interpretation on what tarot cards are.

    Tarot cards, Is a deck of cards, You read. Simply as that.

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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  mac on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:09 pm

    Auras wrote:
    Crystal wrote:
    I don't know what you missed but in summary I asked Tarot practitioners to explain exactly what it is that they do.  I asked a similar set of questions on a number of websites. 

    By all means start a different thread because discussing Tarot would be a distraction from the topic of this one.

    There is a really interesting thread over on the Mediumship board that discusses different aspects of reading and the confusion that seems to be around the difference of what is and what isn't a reading etc.  So as not to distract from that discussion I thought I would open a thread here to see if we can discuss Tarot in a similar way.

    Personally I don't ever use the word practitioner with regards to Tarot. I think it is easier to say Tarot Reader, Tarot Teacher or even Tarot Master and leave practitioner to therapies.

    Not sure what the question is exactly "what it is that they do?" Maybe if I throw a few ideas out there then we might see if the discussion takes off or not?

    1. Anyone can learn to read the Tarot.  You do not need to be a believer, spiritual, psychic or a medium or even have a good memory, but you do need to understand what the Tarot is and how to read it, otherwise you may just as well use pictures cut from a magazine or postcards.

    2. There are layers of depth to the Tarot, from scraping the surface and just looking at the pictures to using the symbology and learning the arcane lessons.

    3. There is nothing evil about the Tarot only evil readers!


    That is your interpretation on what tarot cards are.

    Tarot cards, Is a deck of cards, You read. Simply as that.
    You aren't adding anything, Josh....  This thread needs an experienced Tarot practitioner's input.
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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  Crystal on Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:36 pm

    mac wrote:A simple definition of practitioner:  "One who practices something, especially an occupation, profession, or technique."  I see nothing wrong with using the word 'practitioner' as a general term for anyone using Tarot, be they a reader, teacher or master.
    Yep, ok, nothing wrong per se but the inference of practice and practise, repeating, doing again and again, but each reading is not the same the only constant would be the reader and the deck? But if you prefer practitioner then fine :)


    in summary I asked Tarot practitioners to explain exactly what it is that they do".  I didn't ask who can do it or learn to do it.  I didn't ask about the complexities of the technique.  I didn't suggest there is anything evil about either Tarot or its readers....
    None of the points above answer the question about what a Tarot reader actually does.

    Well if you asked that question on most forums then I am sure most 'tarot readers' would be dumbfounded and look blank. I suppose I can offer two answers, one about me personally and one about what I have seen from my experiences.




    Tarot is whatever the reader decides!




    For me, a Tarot reading should be enlightening and empowering. Although others may presume to bring through spirit or messages from their loved ones that is not the traditional use of the cards; there are mediums to do that. A reading can be about any subject but the aim for the reader should be simply to read the cards and to explain their meaning or message to the seeker according to the position and fall of the cards.




    The more information that a Tarot reader is given, the more information the Tarot reading will give back. The more precise the question, the more precise the answer can be. I often liken this to the Mona Lisa painting. If one was to stand in front of it and look at that enigmatic smile and ponder on what might be the reason? Where to start? Now, if underneath the painting was a title 'Mona Lisa and her driving test' might we be more able to think she was quietly confident, or perhaps she had just passed?




    Now if one adds in a psychic Tarot reader then the reading will have that added energy.




    In the hands of an experienced Tarot reader the cards could predict the stock exchange next week or the gender of an unborn child, but those experienced readers that read ethically and morally to today's standards would do neither. Instead the aim might be to offer support and shed light on options and opportunities so that the seeker could more easily make decisions that empower themselves. Giving the seeker back confidence and power rather than the reader dictating and being in power.










    I have made a start and I am sure there may be lots of contrary comments so before I spend more time trying to paraphrase a lifetime into a paragraph I will wait and see the reaction.


    Last edited by Crystal on Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Can't get rid of italics, - sorry)

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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  Auras on Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:21 pm

    mac wrote:
    Auras wrote:
    Crystal wrote:
    I don't know what you missed but in summary I asked Tarot practitioners to explain exactly what it is that they do.  I asked a similar set of questions on a number of websites. 

    By all means start a different thread because discussing Tarot would be a distraction from the topic of this one.

    There is a really interesting thread over on the Mediumship board that discusses different aspects of reading and the confusion that seems to be around the difference of what is and what isn't a reading etc.  So as not to distract from that discussion I thought I would open a thread here to see if we can discuss Tarot in a similar way.

    Personally I don't ever use the word practitioner with regards to Tarot. I think it is easier to say Tarot Reader, Tarot Teacher or even Tarot Master and leave practitioner to therapies.

    Not sure what the question is exactly "what it is that they do?" Maybe if I throw a few ideas out there then we might see if the discussion takes off or not?

    1. Anyone can learn to read the Tarot.  You do not need to be a believer, spiritual, psychic or a medium or even have a good memory, but you do need to understand what the Tarot is and how to read it, otherwise you may just as well use pictures cut from a magazine or postcards.

    2. There are layers of depth to the Tarot, from scraping the surface and just looking at the pictures to using the symbology and learning the arcane lessons.

    3. There is nothing evil about the Tarot only evil readers!


    That is your interpretation on what tarot cards are.

    Tarot cards, Is a deck of cards, You read. Simply as that.
    You aren't adding anything, Josh....  This thread needs an experienced Tarot practitioner's input.
    Due to my knowledge, They where being use in the 15th century, As playing cards. It is just a pack of cards, with detailed drawings on.  There are 78 of them, if am I correct. Not used them much but have studied quite a lot of them. The tarot its-self has many other name, I only remember one of them and that is "Tarock" This was back when they where first invented of course. Knowing that, They where only played by europeans at the start but as time developed they grew else where. As I said as time developed they became mystics, psychics, mediums, occultist and they actually made a lot out of them. I hope this gives you a better understanding mac.

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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  mac on Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:13 pm

    Auras wrote:
    mac wrote:
    Auras wrote:
    Crystal wrote:
    I don't know what you missed but in summary I asked Tarot practitioners to explain exactly what it is that they do.  I asked a similar set of questions on a number of websites. 

    By all means start a different thread because discussing Tarot would be a distraction from the topic of this one.

    There is a really interesting thread over on the Mediumship board that discusses different aspects of reading and the confusion that seems to be around the difference of what is and what isn't a reading etc.  So as not to distract from that discussion I thought I would open a thread here to see if we can discuss Tarot in a similar way.

    Personally I don't ever use the word practitioner with regards to Tarot. I think it is easier to say Tarot Reader, Tarot Teacher or even Tarot Master and leave practitioner to therapies.

    Not sure what the question is exactly "what it is that they do?" Maybe if I throw a few ideas out there then we might see if the discussion takes off or not?

    1. Anyone can learn to read the Tarot.  You do not need to be a believer, spiritual, psychic or a medium or even have a good memory, but you do need to understand what the Tarot is and how to read it, otherwise you may just as well use pictures cut from a magazine or postcards.

    2. There are layers of depth to the Tarot, from scraping the surface and just looking at the pictures to using the symbology and learning the arcane lessons.

    3. There is nothing evil about the Tarot only evil readers!


    That is your interpretation on what tarot cards are.

    Tarot cards, Is a deck of cards, You read. Simply as that.
    You aren't adding anything, Josh....  This thread needs an experienced Tarot practitioner's input.
    Due to my knowledge, They where being use in the 15th century, As playing cards. It is just a pack of cards, with detailed drawings on.  There are 78 of them, if am I correct. Not used them much but have studied quite a lot of them. The tarot its-self has many other name, I only remember one of them and that is "Tarock" This was back when they where first invented of course. Knowing that, They where only played by europeans at the start but as time developed they grew else where. As I said as time developed they became mystics, psychics, mediums, occultist and they actually made a lot out of them. I hope this gives you a better understanding mac.
    I can research history as easily as you, Josh, but please read my words again.... 

    I didn't ask about the cards, their history and/or their origins and saying, as you have, "...as time developed they became mystics, psychics, mediums, occultist and they actually made a lot out of them." doesn't tell me or anyone else anything about what modern-day practitioners actually do with them, what they're used for, what the intention is when using a Tarot deck for example. 

    My question was simple but to enlarge a little I asked what practitioners do with their Tarot cards meaning what do they use them to do?  Yes I understand that they 'read' them but what does that actually mean?  What comes from their reading?  Is anything learned from that procedure and if so, what?

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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  Auras on Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:21 pm

    mac wrote:
    Auras wrote:
    mac wrote:
    Auras wrote:
    Crystal wrote:

    There is a really interesting thread over on the Mediumship board that discusses different aspects of reading and the confusion that seems to be around the difference of what is and what isn't a reading etc.  So as not to distract from that discussion I thought I would open a thread here to see if we can discuss Tarot in a similar way.

    Personally I don't ever use the word practitioner with regards to Tarot. I think it is easier to say Tarot Reader, Tarot Teacher or even Tarot Master and leave practitioner to therapies.

    Not sure what the question is exactly "what it is that they do?" Maybe if I throw a few ideas out there then we might see if the discussion takes off or not?

    1. Anyone can learn to read the Tarot.  You do not need to be a believer, spiritual, psychic or a medium or even have a good memory, but you do need to understand what the Tarot is and how to read it, otherwise you may just as well use pictures cut from a magazine or postcards.

    2. There are layers of depth to the Tarot, from scraping the surface and just looking at the pictures to using the symbology and learning the arcane lessons.

    3. There is nothing evil about the Tarot only evil readers!


    That is your interpretation on what tarot cards are.

    Tarot cards, Is a deck of cards, You read. Simply as that.
    You aren't adding anything, Josh....  This thread needs an experienced Tarot practitioner's input.
    Due to my knowledge, They where being use in the 15th century, As playing cards. It is just a pack of cards, with detailed drawings on.  There are 78 of them, if am I correct. Not used them much but have studied quite a lot of them. The tarot its-self has many other name, I only remember one of them and that is "Tarock" This was back when they where first invented of course. Knowing that, They where only played by europeans at the start but as time developed they grew else where. As I said as time developed they became mystics, psychics, mediums, occultist and they actually made a lot out of them. I hope this gives you a better understanding mac.
    I can research history as easily as you, Josh, but please read my words again.... 

    I didn't ask about the cards, their history and/or their origins and saying, as you have, "...as time developed they became mystics, psychics, mediums, occultist and they actually made a lot out of them." doesn't tell me or anyone else anything about what modern-day practitioners actually do with them, what they're used for, what the intention is when using a Tarot deck for example. 

    My question was simple but to enlarge a little I asked what practitioners do with their Tarot cards meaning what do they use them to do?  Yes I understand that they 'read' them but what does that actually mean?  What comes from their reading?  Is anything learned from that procedure and if so, what?
    I am afraid, Mac. You're going to get different answers from these questions you're asking. There is no right or wrong answer buddy, I wish you luck :hugz:

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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  mac on Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:43 pm

    Crystal wrote:
    mac wrote:A simple definition of practitioner:  "One who practices something, especially an occupation, profession, or technique."  I see nothing wrong with using the word 'practitioner' as a general term for anyone using Tarot, be they a reader, teacher or master.    For simplicity I've used coloured text to respond directly into this quote box - hope this works...
    Yep, ok, nothing wrong per se but the inference of practice and practise, repeating, doing again and again, but each reading is not the same the only constant would be the reader and the deck? But if you prefer practitioner then fine :)  Let's leave it that we each use whatever word we find best.


    in summary I asked Tarot practitioners to explain exactly what it is that they do".  I didn't ask who can do it or learn to do it.  I didn't ask about the complexities of the technique.  I didn't suggest there is anything evil about either Tarot or its readers....
    None of the points above answer the question about what a Tarot reader actually does.

    Well if you asked that question on most forums then I am sure most 'tarot readers' would be dumbfounded and look blank.  Why do you think they would? If they can't explain what they're doing might I be forgiven for wondering if they understand themselves?  Or are there few questioners, all members being readers/teachers/masters?    I suppose I can offer two answers, one about me personally and one about what I have seen from my experiences.  I'm more than happy to hear your own take on things....

    Tarot is whatever the reader decides!  Oh dear, that doesn't help someone seeking to understand....

    For me, a Tarot reading should be enlightening and empowering. OK....Although others may presume to bring through spirit or messages from their loved ones that is not the traditional use of the cards; there are mediums to do that.  It may not be traditional but does it work as a means of achieving evidential communication?  A reading can be about any subject but the aim for the reader should be simply to read the cards and to explain their meaning or message to the seeker according to the position and fall of the cards.  Sorry but that sounds like so much gobbledegook to me - how does that work....?



    The more information that a Tarot reader is given, the more information the Tarot reading will give back.  For this simple soul you'd need again to explain how that works... The more precise the question, the more precise the answer can be. I can go with that - I hope others will note that I try to make my own questions as concise as possible and hope answers will match that conciseness.... I often liken this to the Mona Lisa painting. If one was to stand in front of it and look at that enigmatic smile and ponder on what might be the reason? Where to start? Now, if underneath the painting was a title 'Mona Lisa and her driving test' might we be more able to think she was quietly confident, or perhaps she had just passed?  Sorry again but I just don't follow how that analogy works....




    Now if one adds in a psychic Tarot reader then the reading will have that added energy.  Again what does that mean?




    In the hands of an experienced Tarot reader the cards could predict the stock exchange next week or the gender of an unborn child, but those experienced readers that read ethically and morally to today's standards would do neither.   Now that's easy to claim but can you substantiate your claim?  Which practitioner has used her/his attributes to successfully predict stock values?  Instead the aim might be to offer support and shed light on options and opportunities so that the seeker could more easily make decisions that empower themselves. Giving the seeker back confidence and power rather than the reader dictating and being in power.  Now that sounds something like personal counselling....????  Am I right?










    I have made a start and I am sure there may be lots of contrary comments so before I spend more time trying to paraphrase a lifetime into a paragraph I will wait and see the reaction.  Thank you for opening the subject up again.  I've tried to make my responses directly relevant to what you've written and I hope you'll respond yourself to the further points I've made.  I know that others seem to find my questions very demanding, and some get uptight presumably because they feel threatened in some way, but what I do is only ask to try to better understand their speciality.
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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  Crystal on Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:01 pm

    None of the points above answer the question about what a Tarot reader actually does.

    Well if you asked that question on most forums then I am sure most 'tarot readers' would be dumbfounded and look blank.  Why do you think they would? If they can't explain what they're doing might I be forgiven for wondering if they understand themselves?  Or are there few questioners, all members being readers/teachers/masters?    I suppose I can offer two answers, one about me personally and one about what I have seen from my experiences.  I'm more than happy to hear your own take on things....

    I wonder if there are a lot of Tarot readers that just occasionally 'read' or for whom Tarot is just a phase they are going through, and so they don't look deeply or question why or how or what etc?

    Tarot is whatever the reader decides!  Oh dear, that doesn't help someone seeking to understand....

    Nope, but it covers the many different individual styles including the scrupulous and the unscrupulous, the ethical and the none.


    For me, a Tarot reading should be enlightening and empowering. OK....Although others may presume to bring through spirit or messages from their loved ones that is not the traditional use of the cards; there are mediums to do that.  It may not be traditional but does it work as a means of achieving evidential communication?

    That is a different question that involves beliefs and it is like asking can tea leaf reading bring through spirit? It's a confusing question too as I haven't found anyone that uses Tarot for evidential readings, why would they? If they can bring through spirit or messages why would they use Tarot that is so difficult and imprecise in the hands of the inexperienced? Why not just use direct contact like mediums do? And after all that wouldn't be a Tarot reading then would it, it would be a different kind of reading, just using the cards for props.  I can see that this will get twisted around.

    It makes me wonder what you really are asking and why, and what answer you expect. Tell me, what do you think the answer to your original question is? Do you think it is all rubbish?

    A reading can be about any subject but the aim for the reader should be simply to read the cards and to explain their meaning or message to the seeker according to the position and fall of the cards.  Sorry but that sounds like so much gobbledegook to me - how does that work....?


    Have you ever had a Tarot reading or seen one? I need to know where to start here, it's fine giving the basics but really you are asking how to read Tarot and without me typing a full book here, it is difficult to explain. There are many different spreads and ways to lay the cards and each changes according to the question asked or the situation.


    The more information that a Tarot reader is given, the more information the Tarot reading will give back.  For this simple soul you'd need again to explain how that works... The more precise the question, the more precise the answer can be. I can go with that - I hope others will note that I try to make my own questions as concise as possible and hope answers will match that conciseness.... I often liken this to the Mona Lisa painting. If one was to stand in front of it and look at that enigmatic smile and ponder on what might be the reason? Where to start? Now, if underneath the painting was a title 'Mona Lisa and her driving test' might we be more able to think she was quietly confident, or perhaps she had just passed?  Sorry again but I just don't follow how that analogy works....

    Well that is the essence of Tarot reading. If one goes to a Tarot reader and asks "give me a reading" then it is up to the reader and the cards what subject will be looked at and it may possibly not be the one subject that the seeker was most interested in. However, if the seeker trusts the reader and asks  for a reading regarding a specific area or subject then everything is directed and focused on that area.

    Now if one adds in a psychic Tarot reader then the reading will have that added energy.  Again what does that mean?


    As I said before anyone can learn to read the Tarot. They do not need to be a psychic or medium or have a brilliant memory, but.. if they are psychic then that will add a different dimension to the reading and the reading becomes a psychic tarot reading with added energy and information.


    In the hands of an experienced Tarot reader the cards could predict the stock exchange next week or the gender of an unborn child, but those experienced readers that read ethically and morally to today's standards would do neither.   Now that's easy to claim but can you substantiate your claim?  Which practitioner has used her/his attributes to successfully predict stock values?


    I don't need to prove anything and do you really think that all readers would share or advertise this?

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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  mac on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:35 pm

    Crystal wrote:
    None of the points above answer the question about what a Tarot reader actually does.

    Well if you asked that quest...................add a different dimension to the reading and the reading becomes a psychic tarot reading with added energy and information.


    In the hands of an experienced Tarot reader the cards could predict the stock exchange next week or the gender of an unborn child, but those experienced readers that read ethically and morally to today's standards would do neither.   Now that's easy to claim but can you substantiate your claim?  Which practitioner has used her/his attributes to successfully predict stock values?


    I don't need to prove anything and do you really think that all readers would share or advertise this?
    Things are getting messy but I've tried to make them as clear as I can.  The website software has spaced paragraphs out more than I wanted but my words are like this and where I have quoted the text is in italics like this.  I hope you're able to follow who said what!  :asmile: 


    You say: "I don't need to prove anything and do you really think that all readers would share or advertise this?" 


    I absolutely agree with your last statement - you are not expected to prove anything to anybody but if you claim something you must know it's true.  You'd have seen the evidence, wouldn't you?  Of course I don't expect that all readers would be capable of predicting stock value changes so they wouldn't have that to share or advertise but where's the evidence from those who do?  But this is not what I wanted to know about.  I am simply interested in what 'ordinary' Tarot readers do with their ordinary Tarot abilities.....





    You said earlier: "Although others may presume to bring through spirit or messages from their loved ones that is not the traditional use of the cards; there are mediums to do that."  To that I replied:  "It may not be traditional but does it work as a means of achieving evidential communication?"

    You then went on: "That is a different question that involves beliefs and it is like asking can tea leaf reading bring through spirit? It's a confusing question too as I haven't found anyone that uses Tarot for evidential readings, why would they? If they can bring through spirit or messages why would they use Tarot that is so difficult and imprecise in the hands of the inexperienced? Why not just use direct contact like mediums do? And after all that wouldn't be a Tarot reading then would it, it would be a different kind of reading, just using the cards for props.  I can see that this will get twisted around."


    It was you who raised the issue of spirit, messages and mediums - not me.  As a result of your raising those points I went on to ask if Tarot actually does get used in that way.  And may I correct you about communication via mediumship?  It is not a matter of beliefs as you've suggested but I don't want that issue to side-track us here.




    You go on to finish by saying: "It makes me wonder what you really are asking and why, and what answer you expect. Tell me, what do you think the answer to your original question is? Do you think it is all rubbish?" 

    May I answer in reverse order?  No I don't think it's all rubbish.  You then demand "Tell me what do you think the answer to your original question is."  To that I must reply I simply don't know - if I did I wouldn't have asked the question, not just on this website but on others.  Your opening statement "It makes me wonder what you really are asking...." links to that last answer.



    You've also asked me "Have you ever had a Tarot reading or seen one? I need to know where to start here, it's fine giving the basics but really you are asking how to read Tarot and without me typing a full book here, it is difficult to explain. There are many different spreads and ways to lay the cards and each changes according to the question asked or the situation."

     My answer to your opening question is 'yes' so you don't need to know where to start and I wasn't asking you how to read Tarot or even how you read Tarot.


    My original question, kinda lost now, was esentially what do Tarot readers do?  By that I was meaning what do they use Tarot to achieve? A deliberately simple question which doesn't need a detailed, complex answer about ways to lay the cards or the different spreads.  A practitioner might need that understanding but I don't.





    I am simply trying to understand what Tarot practitioners feel they provide as service to others or possibly what they expect to do for themselves.
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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  Crystal on Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:59 am

    My question was simple but to enlarge a little I asked what practitioners do with their Tarot cards meaning what do they use them to do?  Yes I understand that they 'read' them but what does that actually mean?  What comes from their reading?  Is anything learned from that procedure and if so, what?

    Pulled this bit from a post you (mac) wrote to Auras.


    Reading the cards is simply like reading a book. Each card is different and therefore has a different meaning and interpretation. When they are all put together the reader could make a story book or a reference book or a single one word message.


    I must be missing the point because to me it is so obvious what Tarot is and does, and mac, it is obvious from your posts you are intelligent and educated and should not be finding this difficult to grasp at all, so it makes me wonder what are the minute details that you are asking about or looking for?

    It's like asking how long is a piece of string and what can you do with it?

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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  mac on Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:59 am

    Crystal wrote:
    My question was simple but to enlarge a little I asked what practitioners do with their Tarot cards meaning what do they use them to do?  Yes I understand that they 'read' them but what does that actually mean?  What comes from their reading?  Is anything learned from that procedure and if so, what?

    Pulled this bit from a post you (mac) wrote to Auras.


    Reading the cards is simply like reading a book. Each card is different and therefore has a different meaning and interpretation. When they are all put together the reader could make a story book or a reference book or a single one word message.


    I must be missing the point because to me it is so obvious what Tarot is and does, and mac, it is obvious from your posts you are intelligent and educated and should not be finding this difficult to grasp at all, so it makes me wonder what are the minute details that you are asking about or looking for?

    It's like asking how long is a piece of string and what can you do with it?
    As I pointed out before, Crystal, I've asked similar questions before both here on SI and elsewhere on my regular forums.  I don't recall the context of the piece I wrote to Auras but essentially I'm still asking much the same questions.

    I hope I'm moderately intelligent and I do consider myself reasonably educated so I think I can usually understand anything that's simply explained.  I'm confident I can write a simple question and all I hope for is for a simple answer, although I do expect that answers may need care to ensure they are simple enough for someone like me - with no understanding of Tarot - to follow.

    In the quote box above you've told me how you do what you do but you haven't explained what value the seeker/enquirer woukd get from it. (I'm only interested in that and not how a reader might use the cards for herself.)  Now I didn't spell that out exactly in those words but I hoped you'd realise what I was looking for.  I did after all give an example of what an evidential medium provides for a sitter so I was hoping that would be a model for an answer to the question about what a Tarot reader does.  My bad that I failed to explain myself clearly enough and I accept total responsibility if that was the case.

    As for my previous attempts to achieve some enlightenment, well the following may sting although it didn't involve you personally.  Apart from a couple of good, specific and simple explanations - which I could easily follow - most others were vague, ambiguous or contradictory.  They left me with concerns and doubts.  Maybe the practitioners who'd tried to explain were either unable to explain
    (some were unwilling) or they didn't understand what they were talking about.

    So, Crystal, is it as obvious as you say above what Tarot does and by that I mean what it brings to an enquirer, what service it provides, what someone gets from a 'reading'?  To me it's still far from obvious so is the teacher blaming the student who can't follow the teacher's explanations or should the teacher find a better way to explain to the student? 

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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  mac on Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:18 pm

    I expect you, and others, may be annoyed when I say the following but I'll take that risk. 

    I spend much time and effort reading what's said.  I spend even more time and effort responding individually to most of the points someone makes.  What I'd love to happen is for contributors then to respond to the individual points I make and on which I spend time and effort formatting to make them as easy as possible to follow.



    I don't want to upset you by saying this but I wrote a carefully worded reply and you just quoted a posting made to Auras as the basis for your response.  If I sound frustrated well I am although many other contributors do similar things. 

    For me debate and discussion means answering points raised before moving on to new ones.  May I respectfully refer you to posting #11 as the example?

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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  Crystal on Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:38 pm

    I don't take offence easily, especially when someone has tried so eloquently to really explain what they are looking for, but, and I am really laughing here with amusement, I wonder if words can do this justice?

    I am a Tarot reader, heck I teach Tarot, online and in person,  and have never come across the confusion I have in this thread! Now don't get offended either, but laugh with me. And I am not being disrespectful at all or in any way trying to belittle my predicament, words just don't seem to be enough, what we may need is to chat in real time so that each point is raised clearly and answered. Here we are going round in circles with the software confusing quotes and italics and the obvious post lag as one replies and then the other and then more points come to mind and questions just get missed as if posts suddenly appear out of nowhere back earlier in the thread.

    AhHa!  :yeeess: 

    Here is an idea...... perhaps I should ask the Tarot and do a Tarot Reading on this and post it? Might that speak for itself? Roflmao.

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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  mac on Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:28 pm

    Crystal wrote:I don't take offence easily, especially when someone has tried so eloquently to really explain what they are looking for, but, and I am really laughing here with amusement, I wonder if words can do this justice?

    I am a Tarot reader, heck I teach Tarot, online and in person,  and have never come across the confusion I have in this thread! Now don't get offended either, but laugh with me. And I am not being disrespectful at all or in any way trying to belittle my predicament, words just don't seem to be enough, what we may need is to chat in real time so that each point is raised clearly and answered. Here we are going round in circles with the software confusing quotes and italics and the obvious post lag as one replies and then the other and then more points come to mind and questions just get missed as if posts suddenly appear out of nowhere back earlier in the thread.

    AhHa!  :yeeess: 

    Here is an idea...... perhaps I should ask the Tarot and do a Tarot Reading on this and post it? Might that speak for itself? Roflmao.
    OK I'll go along with your reactions but honestly I am not confused....  But let's leave all that aside and get down to brass tacks, should we?  Here's my idea. 

    Do a reading for me in the way you'd do it for anyone else.  I'll pay you if that's what normally happens.  Other than online neither of us knows anything much about the other so it would be the same as dealing with any other person.  I am comfortable for you to post what the outcome is publicly along with anything you'd usually tell the recipient - what it means, how I should view it, your advice and comments etc. Would that be a better way for you to explain things to me?

    I'd be happy to give feedback if that's OK with you - what do you say?

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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  Auras on Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:33 pm

    mac wrote:
    Crystal wrote:I don't take offence easily, especially when someone has tried so eloquently to really explain what they are looking for, but, and I am really laughing here with amusement, I wonder if words can do this justice?

    I am a Tarot reader, heck I teach Tarot, online and in person,  and have never come across the confusion I have in this thread! Now don't get offended either, but laugh with me. And I am not being disrespectful at all or in any way trying to belittle my predicament, words just don't seem to be enough, what we may need is to chat in real time so that each point is raised clearly and answered. Here we are going round in circles with the software confusing quotes and italics and the obvious post lag as one replies and then the other and then more points come to mind and questions just get missed as if posts suddenly appear out of nowhere back earlier in the thread.

    AhHa!  :yeeess: 

    Here is an idea...... perhaps I should ask the Tarot and do a Tarot Reading on this and post it? Might that speak for itself? Roflmao.
    OK I'll go along with your reactions but honestly I am not confused....  But let's leave all that aside and get down to brass tacks, should we?  Here's my idea. 

    Do a reading for me in the way you'd do it for anyone else.  I'll pay you if that's what normally happens.  Other than online neither of us knows anything much about the other so it would be the same as dealing with any other person.  I am comfortable for you to post what the outcome is publicly along with anything you'd usually tell the recipient - what it means, how I should view it, your advice and comments etc. Would that be a better way for you to explain things to me?

    I'd be happy to give feedback if that's OK with you - what do you say?
    Don't mean to but in, But, I see you said you would pay for a reading, I would not like you to do that, Simply because you do not know crystal as well, as it could be anyone sitting behind the computer seat. No offense crystal.
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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  Crystal on Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:05 pm

    Auras wrote:
    mac wrote:
    Crystal wrote:I don't take offence easily, especially when someone has tried so eloquently to really explain what they are looking for, but, and I am really laughing here with amusement, I wonder if words can do this justice?

    I am a Tarot reader, heck I teach Tarot, online and in person,  and have never come across the confusion I have in this thread! Now don't get offended either, but laugh with me. And I am not being disrespectful at all or in any way trying to belittle my predicament, words just don't seem to be enough, what we may need is to chat in real time so that each point is raised clearly and answered. Here we are going round in circles with the software confusing quotes and italics and the obvious post lag as one replies and then the other and then more points come to mind and questions just get missed as if posts suddenly appear out of nowhere back earlier in the thread.

    AhHa!  :yeeess: 

    Here is an idea...... perhaps I should ask the Tarot and do a Tarot Reading on this and post it? Might that speak for itself? Roflmao.
    OK I'll go along with your reactions but honestly I am not confused....  But let's leave all that aside and get down to brass tacks, should we?  Here's my idea. 

    Do a reading for me in the way you'd do it for anyone else.  I'll pay you if that's what normally happens.  Other than online neither of us knows anything much about the other so it would be the same as dealing with any other person.  I am comfortable for you to post what the outcome is publicly along with anything you'd usually tell the recipient - what it means, how I should view it, your advice and comments etc. Would that be a better way for you to explain things to me?

    I'd be happy to give feedback if that's OK with you - what do you say?
    Don't mean to but in, But, I see you said you would pay for a reading, I would not like you to do that, Simply because you do not know crystal as well, as it could be anyone sitting behind the computer seat. No offense crystal.


    I don't take offence easily as I already said. I also don't advertise my commercial websites here so although  normally my readings are bought that was not what I was perhaps offering and I think that everyone already knows that. I was offering to ask the cards what they wanted to show.

    But I did say perhaps because true to form the Tarot like any spirit does not like to perform, but I am nearly always open to a challenge.

    Mac, I don't think you are confused, it was me that I was referring to with all the quotes and embedded quotes and more quotes lol. Right pain, would be better to change the software to limit to one quote.

    Back to the normally bit. Normally people come to me for a reading for a reason. I don't give general readings for many reasons they are just too general.  Some readings can easily just be general, Angel readings for instance are brilliant for that, but Tarot needs a focus or the whole key can be off. Most seekers have a question, often about love and relationships, career or work, and if there is no question then I will chat until we find what it is they really want or expect.

     Most seekers want answers and help and support and the reassurance that a one to one reading can give, time and personal attention. Online it can help the seeker to have to put their situation or problem in writing, it makes them think and start the work of changing and understanding. Obviously the style of reading changes depending on whether it is face to face, voice only or written. Also the forum that it is in, is it private or posted on view for anyone to read or find years later, it all changes the reading.

    Lol, I have done  it again, there I go explaining but you do need to ponder on these things if this is going to benefit anyone rather than just take up my time.

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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  mac on Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:54 pm

    With that last posting you've explained more than in all the waffling posts that preceeded it!  A little late but better late than never and a small step forward... :love: 

    Maybe someone else could take a stab at explaining what happens with their own Tarot work?

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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  mac on Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:45 am

    I've been reading again. 


    The following seems particularly relevant: "Normally people come to me for a reading for a reason. I don't give general readings for many reasons they are just too general.  Some readings can easily just be general, Angel readings for instance are brilliant for that, but Tarot needs a focus or the whole key can be off. Most seekers have a question, often about love and relationships, career or work, and if there is no question then I will chat until we find what it is they really want or expect.

     Most seekers want answers and help and support and the reassurance that a one to one reading can give, time and personal attention. Online it can help the seeker to have to put their situation or problem in writing, it makes them think and start the work of changing and understanding. Obviously the style of reading changes depending on whether it is face to face, voice only or written."



    Just for closure, as it looks like this thread's soon gonna peter out.... To this ignoramus the above looks essentially like counselling.  correct?
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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  Crystal on Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:41 pm

    Well it doesn't look like any others are going to contribute, which is a shame but then you were pretty abrupt when you posted to Auras? Perhaps people may be reluctant to post and risk an upsetting reply? Nothing worse than posting and then dreading the result?

    And actually although it may seem to the ignoramus (whom ever they might be) that what I wrote may be considered a form of counselling it is really the opposite.

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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  Guest on Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:07 pm

    Do You do thèse readings?

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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  mac on Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:36 pm

    Crystal wrote:Well it doesn't look like any others are going to contribute, which is a shame but then you were pretty abrupt when you posted to Auras? Perhaps people may be reluctant to post and risk an upsetting reply? Nothing worse than posting and then dreading the result?

    And actually although it may seem to the ignoramus (whom ever they might be) that what I wrote may be considered a form of counselling it is really the opposite.
    Regulars ought to be familiar by my lack of floweriness - it isn't abruptness simply because I don't do 'pretty please with sugar on top'.  In turn I much prefer directness and simplicity when folk respond to what I say.  Auras knows my style well but that posting came from another thread anyway.

    I admit to ignorance of dreading the result of posting although I do sometimes feel like I am walking on egg shells when I question what I can't follow. 

    In connection with your last observation I was speaking only about this ignoramus, about me, mac.  What I read, what I quoted, is my understanding of counselling but I'm comfortable in having that misunderstanding corrected.  Will you tell me how you see it?
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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  Crystal on Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:49 pm

    Mr.Whitmore wrote:Do You do thèse readings?


    Yes I do :)
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    Re: The Tarot

    Post  Crystal on Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:55 pm

    mac wrote:
    Crystal wrote:Well it doesn't look like any others are going to contribute, which is a shame but then you were pretty abrupt when you posted to Auras? Perhaps people may be reluctant to post and risk an upsetting reply? Nothing worse than posting and then dreading the result?

    And actually although it may seem to the ignoramus (whom ever they might be) that what I wrote may be considered a form of counselling it is really the opposite.
    Regulars ought to be familiar by my lack of floweriness - it isn't abruptness simply because I don't do 'pretty please with sugar on top'.  In turn I much prefer directness and simplicity when folk respond to what I say.  Auras knows my style well but that posting came from another thread anyway.

    I admit to ignorance of dreading the result of posting although I do sometimes feel like I am walking on egg shells when I question what I can't follow. 

    In connection with your last observation I was speaking only about this ignoramus, about me, mac.  What I read, what I quoted, is my understanding of counselling but I'm comfortable in having that misunderstanding corrected.  Will you tell me how you see it?


    It was post number 4 in this thread.

    Many different types of counselling but the main feature is that a trained counsellor is taught to listen and not to offer suggestions which is what the cards can do. I know that many people think that counselling is more of a two way interaction but for the most part the counsellor is silent but acknowledging, nodding and offering support and reassurance, it is the client that is talking about their concerns or worries and problems.

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