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    8 of swords and 8 of cups

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    shayn
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    8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  shayn on Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:14 am

    anyone else see the resemblance between these 2 cards? 
    using the rider deck images for this...
    do not know about other decks images...


    yup true meaning of cards are not the same, but i suspect they are more related then thought of at first.


    anyway, any thoughts are wellcome


    s
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    RavenMoon
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  RavenMoon on Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:48 pm

    I personally would say.. that someone is in going round in circles trying to make a decision emotionally but the circles are of their own doing. Basic interpretation.
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    Crystal
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  Crystal on Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:26 pm

    There is a big but perhaps subtle difference to me in that the 8 of Swords depicts the person blindfolded and unable to see so they are not consciously moving away from something as in the 8 of Cups where the person has clearly turned their back. The the main difference between the suits Swords being about problems and strife and Cups about emotions and relationships. Both being eights means that the journey is nearly over so no difference there.

    What made you pick those two cards?
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  shayn on Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:57 pm

    thank you crystal

    at this point i put a side the emotions and conflicts and focus on the images :) and i thank you for your words, it actually made something much clearer for me.
    i'm not sure the 8 of cup's person is in a better position then the person in the 8 of swords, i don't think he knows better what he is looking for or where he is heading, but yes, the 8 of cups for me bring action and movement into the frozen same situation of the 8 of swords. - well this what i took from your words :)

    as to answer you other question, don't mind answer it but only via PM if you like.


    but once again, thank you for supporting the feeling i had but wasn't sure how to put it into words.


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    Crystal
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  Crystal on Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:02 pm

    Glad to have been of help.

    Another aspect that is interesting about the 8 of Swords is if you look closely the bindings are very loose and perhaps could be shrugged off and fall to the ground freeing the lady's arms so that she could remove the blindfold and see? Then are the 8 swords protecting her from falling into the water whilst she was blindfolded?  hehehe, new thoughts eh?

    No worries about the other, let me know if I can be of help :)
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  shayn on Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:17 pm

    true, 

    very often i hear people say, the lady in the 8 of sword only playing the Lady in distress wanting someone else to rescue her while she can do it by herself, 
    so yes, maybe? and maybe not? maybe it is only looks this way from the outside.
    and i agree, maybe she is in this place being protected, though unable to move, or unwilling to move as if she moves the water might take her? the fear might consume her?
    i do believe the swords protecting her in away.
    yup, the swords can be a prison she needs to or wish to run away from, 
    i always wonder if she is really free, can she really loose herself from her chains? can she really move? is it really only up to her?

    for many reasons i find this card very fascinating.


    i was looking at both these cards and at one point the cups and the swords kind of looked the same for me, as if doing the same thing, placing some sort of a wall.... don't know....

    thanks for sharing thoughts with me.


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    Crystal
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  Crystal on Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:08 pm

    Anytime, I miss tarot discussion, could talk forever  :)  It's nice to find someone that thinks about the cards :)
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  shayn on Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:28 pm

    i also love Tarot discussion, and i love talking with people who are not "reading" what is written in the books.

    right now i'm still kind of stuck with these 2, but i guess by next week there be a new card to be "stuck" with...stay tune to our new tarot episode  :giggles: 


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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  Crystal on Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:33 pm

    Shayn, I notice you keep saying the Rider Deck? Are you talking about the Original Rider Waite deck then? William Rider and Sons were the original publishers, but A E Waite is the author of the deck. Or are you talking about another deck?
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  shayn on Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:07 pm

    yup, sorry, what i have is  written rider, and it is by Waite and smith did the drawings (i think was her name) and there is a deck with not so many nice colours and then there is other version of the same drawing and deck but with nicer colours :) but still few specific colours, and i move between those. 
    i have many decks that i can say i love much better the art work and all and yet, these are  decks (of the same kind only not the same colouring,) that i work with....
    though, if i choose to use only the major arcana i use the marseilles tarot deck, it is very deep and interesting as well, 
    the one deck i want to put my hands on is the sola busca deck, but i have to do some major saving to buy this deck.. at least the reconstructed one.


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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  Crystal on Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:27 pm

    Wow you sounds like me. The Sola Busca is a very interesting deck, I have the book of the deck which has all the card images , it is really very different to any other tarot I have ever seen, but it is clear which cards Pamela Colman-Smith used in the Waite Smith deck.  I see there is a reprint on Ebay going for £1,450.00 lol !!  :faint:
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  shayn on Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:56 am

    are there any other decks you wish to put your hands on?
    normally i just buy a new deck if i love the art work, and very often never use it for reading...
    sometimes for meditation but i don't get to do much of this at the moment.
    i would love to have a real :cb:  i have few very very small ones and it is very hard to see anything in them. 


    btw would you go with the thought that the 8 cups in the 8 of cups are also can be a protective shield or wall to the person in search?
    like with the swords there is an opening in the wall, and though the person in the cups is more active and taking his first moving steps, he is still in a "protective custody" soft of speak like the 8 of swords.  



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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  Crystal on Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:40 am

    shayn are there any other decks you wish to put your hands on?
    normally i just buy a new deck if i love the art work, and very often never use it for reading...
    sometimes for meditation but i don't get to do much of this at the moment.

    Actually there aren't, thankfully. In fact after we moved home last year I am downsizing or trying to. I have so many decks that I have never used and that are bnib and are still in the packing cases and it seems wrong. I have curbed my enthusiasm a lot and haven't impulsively bought for a while now. I found that I liked looking at other decks and needed them for my work but that I really have to just accept I am a tarot snob, I love my Waite decks especially the Universal Waite and the Commemorative Waite Smith deck, I understand their inspiration and logic.



    btw would you go with the thought that the 8 cups in the 8 of cups are also can be a protective shield or wall to the person in search?
    like with the swords there is an opening in the wall, and though the person in the cups is more active and taking his first moving steps, he is still in a "protective custody" soft of speak like the 8 of swords.

    Cups being the suit of emotions, feelings and relationships, perhaps the uneven 'wall' with 8 cups, 5 on the bottom row and 3 unevenly spread across the top is what is causing the person to search for more to get satisfaction? The 9th and 10th cups? Leaving behind a lot, upright, safe cups that he already has? But where is he going to? And, if he just spread the cups onthe top row evenly he may see perfection and not need to search anymore?
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  RavenMoon on Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:01 pm

    shayn wrote:i also love Tarot discussion, and i love talking with people who are not "reading" what is written in the books.

    right now i'm still kind of stuck with these 2, but i guess by next week there be a new card to be "stuck" with...stay tune to our new tarot episode  :giggles: 



    ************************************************************************************
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    I Have always tried to get my own impression of the cards...
    I DONT "read" the books....... :meditating: 





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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  Violet on Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:18 am

    I think it would be great to have more tarot discussions :flo: 



    Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly.
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    shayn
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  shayn on Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:34 am

    me too (two) :astar:
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    Crystal
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  Crystal on Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:09 pm

    three lol


     so what shall we discuss?

    Tarot books?

    Shayn have you read the ultimate Rider Waite tarot book? The Pictorial Guide to the Tarot by AE Waite? As it is so old it is freely available online http://www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/pkt/
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  shayn on Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:06 pm

    hi crystal  i didn't know you can get it free online :)

    i bought it few years ago and i read it at the time, but i don't recall much of it, i guess with the time all melted into one big thing that i call my knowledge, of the cards, 
    but sometimes i do find myself opening the book looking for a meaning to this or that specific sign. mind you, maybe my reading is not that good but there are symbols or things that appear in the cards but get no explanation in this book. 


    do you find yourself, using books now? i mean tarot books that explain things? - the basics? 
    the main problem i have with the different tarot books is that allthough  the general idea of each card is more or less the same, when you get down to the details, you find that different books hold different interpretations for the the same card - now i can take it when talking about different decks, as i don't think all decks are the same, but this is a different topic- but books that refer to the Waite's deck, imply different meanings to the same card... it can be confusing. 
    so at one point i just gave up on the books and follow my "feelings" with the cards.
    as i used to tell my students, find one book that you like and stick with it.
    do you have one that you like the most?

    S



    by the way Crystal what a great link, thank you for sharing it.
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  blackbirdrising on Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:07 am

    I dont follow the guidelines for what the cards mean to the person who first made them. What strikes me first is the reoccurence of eight. eight is a survivors number, has to do with finances, gets tangled up in the root energy center (the id energy). There are two forces at work in the root - financial freedom/having your secure/home/utilities/material needs met and sex/reproduction needs, both necessary for survival. If these two keep popping up, I would say these issues need attention before physical health in the sex organs/colon becomes an issue.
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  Crystal on Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:37 pm


    hi crystal  i didn't know you can get it free online :)

    i bought it few years ago and i read it at the time, but i don't recall much of it, i guess with the time all melted into one big thing that i call my knowledge, of the cards, 
    but sometimes i do find myself opening the book looking for a meaning to this or that specific sign. mind you, maybe my reading is not that good but there are symbols or things that appear in the cards but get no explanation in this book.

    Don't forget that AE Waite wrote the book back in 1909 when the world was a far far different place. Meanings were different, life was different and that is all relative. Having the suit of emotions and relationships well back then there would have been a completely different set of values, marriage was expected and at a very young age accepted, they courted and asked permission and everybody's world was much smaller.Travel took a longer time, weeks instead of hours. Suddenly we might glimpse the cards as he did?

    I think that is what is so fascinating about the way that tarot has developed. From being an arcane and occult set of rare and very secret heavyweight cards that portrayed lessons to be learnt in order to graduate as part of the order to the modern decks and availability that now anyone can pick up a deck?


    do you find yourself, using books now? i mean tarot books that explain things? - the basics?
    I love books, I am always researching some aspect or other, but I don't use books for reading or explaining the basics. But then I have been a tarot reader for a long time and over the years the knowledge has sunk in to the point that with the Waite deck's I can picture the card without it being there lol.

    the main problem i have with the different tarot books is that allthough  the general idea of each card is more or less the same, when you get down to the details, you find that different books hold different interpretations for the the same card - now i can take it when talking about different decks, as i don't think all decks are the same, but this is a different topic- but books that refer to the Waite's deck, imply different meanings to the same card... it can be confusing.

    That is where my teaching theory of 'baggage' comes in. The unique thing about the Waite deck is their lack of baggage. Pamela Colman-Smith, the artist, did a fabulous job creating pictures on all cards for the first time in modern tarot history. The pictures create scenes that nearly everyone can relate to immediately, and even the Aces and court cards can be understood with a small pointer. The pictures show an altruistic situation that is clear, but it is only on refection that hidden layers of depth can be uncovered.

    Each author of the many tarot books around today have their own baggage. Their own experiences and life situations that can cloud what they see and how they interpret the pictures. It all depends whether one is the person or focus of the card or a bystander looking at the scene or one of the characters. That is how most interpretations vary. Of course the Pictorial guide is just that a public guide, now, imagine what the private guide that Waite taught might hold? None of the political correctness, or pussy footing around, and disclaimers?

    so at one point i just gave up on the books and follow my "feelings" with the cards.
    as i used to tell my students, find one book that you like and stick with it.
    do you have one that you like the most?

    S
    For teaching Joan Bunnings is very good and clear as a reference book and I like the way the cards are all there on the pages, otherwise I wrote my own.
    I think that once the cards and suits are learnt then there is a good solid foundation to build on. Adding in things like correspondences and elementals or numerological values can give more depth and offer reasons for which interpretation to favour, and for the more dedicated reader or tarot enthusiast these suddenly spring out and throw a light as bright as The Hermit's.




    by the way Crystal what a great link, thank you for sharing it.

    You are most welcome , that site is good for old stuff which I love.
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  shayn on Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:48 pm

    i agree, tarot did evolved and changed with the years and times just as we as people changed and life had and still is changing. 
    personally i believe that at one point or anther, if one is deep into the cards one forms and creates a personal language with the card, meanings that are right for him or her but might be different from what is accepted or common.  this is why i also look at the books as reference but not as holding The Solid Truth. also with the years i wrote down what messages and insights i receive from the cards, and my writings become my best book.

    true that Smith did a wonderful job with the images of the cards but she wasn't all original some she picked from older decks, yet, i agree she did a good job: when i look at her images they really like doors invite me inside, taking me to wherever...clear as they are her images i find them also to be very intuitive, they kind of not blocking the viewer. 
    modern decks, as i said before, i enjoy buying them as art works, sometimes i feel nice to use some for medication,  but  that is as far as it goes.
    mind you i can as i'm sure you are able to use any deck for reading, after all, but, some decks are just not feel nice for me to use for reading though i really love the art work.
    one funny thing i tried a while back, was i took a playing cards of my little one, it was with cartoon images, very childish and very funny, and i just used them for my reading instead of the tarot cards, telling everyone  this is a new deck, and funny enough it worked and the feedback i received were amazing, this made me wondered at the time - but it was a thought that stayed floating in the air...

    i also find, if returning to your first point, that even for oneself, the meaning and depth of the same card is changing with time and years, and  your age also make you see things you never noticed before, or life make you grasp aspects of the symbols you never thought of before.  it is not a dead art, at least for me.




    [size=12.727272033691406]now, i'm in a search for something, but i think if you don't mind i will PM you this..[/size]


    [size=12.727272033691406]S[/size]




    [size=12.727272033691406]btw, do you use the cards for other things then reading?[/size]
    [size=12.727272033691406]hope you don't mind me asking?[/size]


    [size=12.727272033691406] [/size]

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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  Skye2 on Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:22 am

    shayn wrote:anyone else see the resemblance between these 2 cards? 
    using the rider deck images for this...
    do not know about other decks images...


    yup true meaning of cards are not the same, but i suspect they are more related then thought of at first.


    anyway, any thoughts are wellcome


    s


    Hello shayn, 

    Skye here. I had to register again so for now my username is Skye2. Hopefully Violet will change it back to Skye.

    When I look at the 8 of swords this card reveals that the mind and the mind alone is in control of how events or circumstances are experienced in their life. This mental instability shows how people in times of personal crisis can build unseen barriers or withdraw from others, possibly believing a situation is such that they have no choice but to remain there. It's a form of self sacrifice. A misguided belief that this is what they have to do to survive in their world. 
    At this time their inner despair prevents them from acknowledging that there are different ways of action and thinking that will help them detach from present circumstances, which would bring them much needed relief and respite. This idea if mentioned may appear too simple to them or, perhaps they do not have the confidence or support to consider other possibilities therefore, they dismiss it and continue to endure unnecessary suffering which if prolonged will no doubt eventually affect their health and personal welfare.   

    Whereas with the 8 cups the person knows and understands but more importantly sees reality for what it is. They have come to recognise the way they have been living is nothing short of insanity and accept responsibility for their own actions and also realise that others must be responsible for their own actions. They have the confidence, strength and courage to learn how to emotionally detach from circumstances - not necessarily turn and walk away physically - which previously had them living a life of chaos. They are willing to reach out to another for help as they know enough is enough. It's time to plan for change so they can make progress and move forward. 
    This doesn't imply they won't hit setbacks along the way but the choices they now make means they can in time and with effort begin to concentrate their thoughts on taking care of themselves, rather than continually focusing on others. In doing this it may also have an impact on how others see themselves which could encourage positive changes to take place all round resulting in improved relationships. 

    So in my opinion the 8 of swords is a card that reveals stagnation, suffering and misery caused by influences of a controlling nature, whilst the 8 of cups shows we can still be going through the same experience yet by the act of letting go in trying to control events emotionally, our lives can be physically transformed for the better. 

    After typing all this could the resemblance be control?
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  shayn on Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:48 pm

    hi skye

    thank you for a very interesting post. and thank you for sharing it. 
    there are many ways to see and understand the cards, and i thank you for this other perspective you just added.
    control ....


    what do you think crystal?


    s

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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  Skye2 on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:22 am

    Your welcome shayn, and yes I can also understand that there has to be numerous amounts of tarot interpretations which differ from reader to reader. We each have had separate life experiences after all so it's only natural our perceptions are different. And, much like yourself shayn, it's good to hear peoples perspective as it can be helpful for divination purposes, especially when developing the skill for learning and understanding the symbolism of tarot cards and sometimes beyond the beginners stage! 




    I remember the saying "We are teacher and student at the same time"  Interestingly we will always be both.
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    Re: 8 of swords and 8 of cups

    Post  Crystal on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:11 pm

    I'm not sure how to reply to those two views of the cards without possibly offending.

    I wonder if Skye2 sees anything positive in them at all?  Or if such a judgemental attitude and such depressive words (mental instability, personal crisis, unseen barriers, self sacrifice, respite, unnecessary suffering, insanity, chaos, setbacks, suffering, misery) would really be helpful if used in a reading?

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