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    The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

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    Knight of Albion
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    The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  Knight of Albion on Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:03 pm

    A new book on NDEs 'The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences' by Dr Penny Sartori, is to be published in February.

    The book has just had the most tremendous write-up in the Daily Mail... 

    Here is the article.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2545668/Is-proof-near-death-experiences-ARE-real-Extraordinary-new-book-intensive-care-nurse-reveals-dramatic-evidence-says-banish-fear-dying.html
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  SpiritVoices on Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:11 pm

    Just read the account of a NDE.    I have read many accounts of NDE's,and what I like about them is that each case is very similiar to each other....which to me proves that NDE's are genuine.     Also read that that the passing into spirit is much the same.

    Seeing those who have died before us.....so why are they trying to blame a disfunction of the brain?
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  Knight of Albion on Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:44 pm

    The Daily Mail has had two follow up articles, children's NDEs and readers NDEs ...
    (It seems to have got the country talking...)

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547133/The-children-near-death-experiences-lead-charmed-lives-Study-reveals-youngsters-young-six-months-lucid-visions.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547714/Our-astonishing-near-death-stories-touched-thought-provoking-series-intensive-care-nurse.html
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  SpiritVoices on Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:59 pm

    I have never experienced a NDE so cannot recount an experience,but if it is the same as I have experienced through lucid dreams then I would say they are near enough the same.

    The difference between NDE's is one being near physical death and the other is a very clear dream or seems like a dream,but remember we do not always remember normal dreams.   NDE's are never forgotten neither are Lucid dreams.   We FEEL and KNOW we have visited somewhere that is beyond our scope to normally visit in a Physical life.

    I cannot explain it in clear terms what it is like to 'see' the other side.
    It is something never forgotten....
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  Knight of Albion on Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:09 am

    SpiritVoices wrote:I have never experienced a NDE so cannot recount an experience,but if it is the same as I have experienced through lucid dreams then I would say they are near enough the same.

    The difference between NDE's is one being near physical death and the other is a very clear dream or seems like a dream,but remember we do not always remember normal dreams.   NDE's are never forgotten neither are Lucid dreams.   We FEEL and KNOW we have visited somewhere that is beyond our scope to normally visit in a Physical life.

    I cannot explain it in clear terms what it is like to 'see' the other side.
    It is something never forgotten...
    Orthodoxy has turned 'death' into something terrifying, a big black monster. 

    To our ancestors 'death' was merely a transition, a journey into another realm, as natural as the changing of the seasons. 

    Most people who have undergone a NDE lose their fear of death. If these accounts and others like them help create a greater acceptance and understanding of the continuity of life then that can only be a good thing, especially when accompanied by the message of love - something else most people who undergo a NDE pick up on...

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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  mac on Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:18 am

    Knight of Albion wrote:A new book on NDEs 'The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences' by Dr Penny Sartori, is to be published in February.

    The book has just had the most tremendous write-up in the Daily Mail... 

    Here is the article.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2545668/Is-proof-near-death-experiences-ARE-real-Extraordinary-new-book-intensive-care-nurse-reveals-dramatic-evidence-says-banish-fear-dying.html
    The book may be every bit as good as is claimed (I do hope so) but the Daily Wail (and others) do commercial promotions with advertisers so reviews need to be viewed with a measure of caution...
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  SpiritVoices on Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:05 am

    Knight of Albion wrote:
    SpiritVoices wrote:I have never experienced a NDE so cannot recount an experience,but if it is the same as I have experienced through lucid dreams then I would say they are near enough the same.

    The difference between NDE's is one being near physical death and the other is a very clear dream or seems like a dream,but remember we do not always remember normal dreams.   NDE's are never forgotten neither are Lucid dreams.   We FEEL and KNOW we have visited somewhere that is beyond our scope to normally visit in a Physical life.

    I cannot explain it in clear terms what it is like to 'see' the other side.
    It is something never forgotten...
    Orthodoxy has turned 'death' into something terrifying, a big black monster. 

    To our ancestors 'death' was merely a transition, a journey into another realm, as natural as the changing of the seasons. 

    Most people who have undergone a NDE lose their fear of death. If these accounts and others like them help create a greater acceptance and understanding of the continuity of life then that can only be a good thing, especially when accompanied by the message of love - something else most people who undergo a NDE pick up on...
    I lost my fear of death after my husband passed over.    I saw the peaceful way he he left this world,sleeping away into spirit.   Same with my mother,she drifted along through sleep straight into spirit.   Opened her eyes at the end and I got a lovely smile from her as she left...That was enough to convince me..... :asmile:
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  Knight of Albion on Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:33 am

    SpiritVoices wrote:
    Knight of Albion wrote:
    SpiritVoices wrote:I have never experienced a NDE so cannot recount an experience,but if it is the same as I have experienced through lucid dreams then I would say they are near enough the same.

    The difference between NDE's is one being near physical death and the other is a very clear dream or seems like a dream,but remember we do not always remember normal dreams.   NDE's are never forgotten neither are Lucid dreams.   We FEEL and KNOW we have visited somewhere that is beyond our scope to normally visit in a Physical life.

    I cannot explain it in clear terms what it is like to 'see' the other side.
    It is something never forgotten...
    Orthodoxy has turned 'death' into something terrifying, a big black monster. 

    To our ancestors 'death' was merely a transition, a journey into another realm, as natural as the changing of the seasons. 

    Most people who have undergone a NDE lose their fear of death. If these accounts and others like them help create a greater acceptance and understanding of the continuity of life then that can only be a good thing, especially when accompanied by the message of love - something else most people who undergo a NDE pick up on...
    I lost my fear of death after my husband passed over.    I saw the peaceful way he he left this world,sleeping away into spirit.   Same with my mother,she drifted along through sleep straight into spirit.   Opened her eyes at the end and I got a lovely smile from her as she left...That was enough to convince me..... :asmile:

    How beautiful.

    I've heard of numerous pre-death/moment of passing accounts like that. They see a vision of great beauty or most frequently a 'dead' loved one (mother, father, spouse...) comes to greet them and accompany them over.
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  SpiritVoices on Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:21 am

    Just read your blog,most interesting.....have saved it....
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  mayflow on Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:37 am

    I was with my mom when she passed after battling with cancer for several years. She had been mostly so drugged up by the hospital that she was never really conscious for several months. All of a sudden her eyes opened wide and bright and she said "OH! It is so beautiful!" She never closed her eyes again. Makes me tear up even to type it.

    When I saw her in the casket, that night I dreamed that she sat up in her casket and smiled at me, and said everything would be fine.
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  SpiritVoices on Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:05 pm

    There you see,we mock at dreams.....it may have been wishful thinking on your part but I say your mother was letting you know she is still with you.....
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  Knight of Albion on Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:48 pm

    SpiritVoices wrote:There you see,we mock at dreams.....it may have been wishful thinking on your part but I say your mother was letting you know she is still with you.....

    It was her time. She saw the Other Side awaiting her and spoke, probably not to let you (Mayflow)  know specifically, but with descriptive honesty of what she saw. A deeply comforting thought to hold on to. (Something we all need because no matter how fervent one's belief in an afterlife, it still hurts to 'lose' a loved one.)
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  ameliorate on Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:52 pm

    What strikes me about the scientific/medical theories is that they all propose an (inadequate)  physical explanation.  These always fail to answer the more inexplicable features of some NDEs, notably I read of an account whereby someone saw their sister as one of the dead relatives and couldn't understand it since he thought she was alive. She had died a week before and his family wanted to spare him this news since he was ill. Also he was able to open his hand for the first time since it's clawed contraction at birth.  Then there are accounts of someone developing advanced understanding, e.g. quantum physics on returning from their NDE.  These are the issues that need to be addressed if we are to believe the explanations of scientists/medical specialists.
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  Knight of Albion on Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:05 pm

    I think there is denial broadly because for many people accepting these things as truth would overturn everything they believe in and stand for.

    In the end though it doesn't really matter. This knowledge, even if not accepted, is stored and one day when their 'time' comes along and they find themselves alive in spirit all of this will kick in and they're going to have to face up to reality.

    Better to know than not know! A case of 'Play up! Play up! and play the game.'
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  SpiritVoices on Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:34 pm

    My proof came that a spirit world does exist was asking my husband to show me what this world looked like.  (Spirit world).

    I felt ashamed about making this request as he hadn't been gone long.
    A sort of a test to prove to myself that he was really in some sort of another kind of world.

    A couple of days went by and I had the most unusual dream.
    It started as an ordinary dream,with both of us shopping in town.
    A small town where we often to go....
    A normal dream of memories...

    He took me the hand and even though he didn't speak,I got the words he was going to show me something...

    Next we were standing on the top of a small mountain.  
    Looking down below,I saw the most beautiful scenery,colourful  and bright.  
    Bushes,flowers and greenery.    Colours out of this world.

    What took my breath away was the colour of the water,the sea down below.

    Just think of every shade of blue,green and turquoise colours,far brighter than we see here.
    I wish I could paint and show you the colours I saw!

    That convinced me and I need no further proof to know there is another country like earth somewhere.   Just more wonderful than our earth here....
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  Knight of Albion on Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:20 pm

    SpiritVoices wrote:My proof came that a spirit world does exist was asking my husband to show me what this world looked like.  (Spirit world).

    I felt ashamed about making this request as he hadn't been gone long.
    A sort of a test to prove to myself that he was really in some sort of another kind of world.

    A couple of days went by and I had the most unusual dream.
    It started as an ordinary dream,with both of us shopping in town.
    A small town where we often to go....
    A normal dream of memories...

    He took me the hand and even though he didn't speak,I got the words he was going to show me something...

    Next we were standing on the top of a small mountain.  
    Looking down below,I saw the most beautiful scenery,colourful  and bright.  
    Bushes,flowers and greenery.    Colours out of this world.

    What took my breath away was the colour of the water,the sea down below.

    Just think of every shade of blue,green and turquoise colours,far brighter than we see here.
    I wish I could paint and show you the colours I saw!

    That convinced me and I need no further proof to know there is another country like earth somewhere.   Just more wonderful than our earth here....

    How wonderful.

    I had a dream vision shortly after my mother passed over. It was a source of great comfort.

    She had been restricted by disability for years and even though not a day goes by when I don't think of my mother (and my father) it makes me smile to think that she is '23' again, back to full mobility and happy. 
    And I'm so glad she is in  a much better place than here and fulfilling all the things she wanted to do but never had the chance to do whilst here on earth.
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  SpiritVoices on Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:21 pm

    Like you,I often think of my parents.   I remember when they were young and I was a child.
    Some say we shouldn't think of the past but I had a very happy childhood.    
    My mother suffered from Dementia and it was sad to see how she deteriorated.   But not long after she left,I saw her in spirit and she was as she used to be...intelligent and always cheerful.
    I saw her on a country lane and we walked down to the beach...no speaking,no words...

    Same as my father,standing at his front door near his garden.    Each time I was not allowed to go too close....There is always that barrier when one is in spirit one still here on the earth plane.

    I have been told that we will know when our time comes...not sure I want to know that yet....

     :asmile:
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  Azrael on Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:44 pm

    SpiritVoices wrote:Just read the account of a NDE.    I have read many accounts of NDE's,and what I like about them is that each case is very similiar to each other....which to me proves that NDE's are genuine.     Also read that that the passing into spirit is much the same.

    Seeing those who have died before us.....so why are they trying to blame a disfunction of the brain?



    I would say that's more than likely what it is. Not so much "brain disfunction" but the brain preparing you for death. With no absolute way to prove NDE's and you only have the word of the person that experienced it. Have those people lied? No I do not think they have lied but I do think what they are seeing is the brains way of preparing them for death even it does not occur.
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  SpiritVoices on Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:52 pm

    Azrael wrote:
    SpiritVoices wrote:Just read the account of a NDE.    I have read many accounts of NDE's,and what I like about them is that each case is very similiar to each other....which to me proves that NDE's are genuine.     Also read that that the passing into spirit is much the same.

    Seeing those who have died before us.....so why are they trying to blame a disfunction of the brain?



    I would say that's more than likely what it is. Not so much "brain disfunction" but the brain preparing you for death. With no absolute way to prove NDE's and you only have the word of the person that experienced it. Have those people lied? No I do not think they have lied but I do think what they are seeing is the brains way of preparing them for death even it does not occur.
    Sleep is often described as 'the little death'...
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  Azrael on Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:01 pm

    SpiritVoices wrote:
    Azrael wrote:
    SpiritVoices wrote:Just read the account of a NDE.    I have read many accounts of NDE's,and what I like about them is that each case is very similiar to each other....which to me proves that NDE's are genuine.     Also read that that the passing into spirit is much the same.

    Seeing those who have died before us.....so why are they trying to blame a disfunction of the brain?



    I would say that's more than likely what it is. Not so much "brain disfunction" but the brain preparing you for death. With no absolute way to prove NDE's and you only have the word of the person that experienced it. Have those people lied? No I do not think they have lied but I do think what they are seeing is the brains way of preparing them for death even it does not occur.
    Sleep is often described as 'the little death'...

    Never heard it put that way but yeah essentially you maybe right.
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  ameliorate on Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:28 pm

    Azrael...how do you account for my post no. 13?  It cannot be explained away by brain chemistry.
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  Azrael on Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:53 pm

    ameliorate wrote:Azrael...how do you account for my post no. 13?  It cannot be explained away by brain chemistry.

    You don't know that and neither do I.
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  ameliorate on Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:13 pm

    Azrael wrote:
    ameliorate wrote:Azrael...how do you account for my post no. 13?  It cannot be explained away by brain chemistry.

    You don't know that and neither do I.
    Er...what?  Did you even read that post?   :faint: 

    How do you account for, in the NDE experience, he met his sister amongst the other dead relatives that he thought to be alive - only to later learn she had recently been killed?  How can this be explained by brain chemistry pray tell?
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  Azrael on Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:36 pm

    ameliorate wrote:
    Azrael wrote:
    ameliorate wrote:Azrael...how do you account for my post no. 13?  It cannot be explained away by brain chemistry.

    You don't know that and neither do I.
    Er...what?  Did you even read that post?   :faint: 

    How do you account for, in the NDE experience, he met his sister amongst the other dead relatives that he thought to be alive - only to later learn she had recently been killed?  How can this be explained by brain chemistry pray tell?

    He met his so called sister because that was part of the brain shutting down at near death....Ever heard the old adage "your life passing before eyes".....he may have met his sister in his head but thats all it was in his head....These accounts to me are no more than religious people trying to "VALIDATE" a heaven which coincidentally no one has ever seen or found.  Brain waves spike at the near time of death this hyper activity is again the brain preparing some one for the inevitable. These NDEs really are no more than vivid dreams which some people recall better than others.

    These are no more than peoples attempt to validate what has been shoved down their throat all their life. They may happen but they are no more than hearsay because no one can validate them but the person its happening to. The DREADED fear of being placed in a hole for eternity and left to rot naturally is just not what some people want accept. Dying is not something anyone wants to accept but it is a cold hard fact of life (momento  mori) which means "remember, you will die."

    As to this story, what he saw or thought he saw was the brain dredging up past memories. Am I calling him a liar? No.

    The Dying Brain
    http://www.near-death.com/experiences/experts01.html#a01
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    Re: The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences

    Post  ameliorate on Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:43 pm

    Azrael you completely missed the enigma in that particular NDE - guess you were in too much of a hurry
    to post your anti stance.   His brain closing down does NOT account for why he saw his sister who he thought was alive amongst those dead relatives that greeted him.  Never mind  :SH: 

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