A forum for seekers everywhere...


    Proof of Spirit Life.

    Share
    avatar
    SpiritVoices
    Member

    Female
    Number of posts : 13312
    Location : UK
    Job/hobbies : Retired
    Registration date : 2010-12-17

    Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  SpiritVoices on Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:08 pm

    Rather interesting.






    Proof of an afterlife.     A possible test of its existence


    An idea for one possible way of testing for the existence of an afterlife.


    by, John Jackson © 2007


    The existence of an afterlife is a widely held belief. It is where our consciousness is believed to continue on after our bodily death. It relies on us having a metaphysical soul or spirit; an aspect to our being that is beyond the purely physical. As such, the metaphysical nature of the afterlife means that we cannot directly test whether it really exists.


    Many believe, however, that communication with the dead is possible. Currently, 'mediums' are the most common form of proposed contact; although there are many other ways that offer potential proof of survival including: Electronic Voice Phenomena (EVP); Near Death Experiences (NDEs); Dreams; Ouija board communication; past-life regression; or even dowsing. Any method that allows the receiving of information could be used.


    Testing for the existence of an afterlife directly may not be possible, but if information can be passed from the dead to the living, its existence can potentially be proven.


    Although there is a lot of evidence for the afterlife from various sources, none of them are robust enough to offer anything in the way of proof. Even combining all of the evidence from all of the different fields of research still does not amount to proof (or evidence strong enough to overcome reasonable doubt).


    The problem of interpretation


    The big problem with such things as EVPs, NDEs, and of course mediums, is that the results and experiences are interpreted. We all have inbuilt biases that lead us to interpret things in ways that we want or expect to see. When researchers are testing mediums by getting them to do blinded readings (e.g. using proxy sitters) for people, for example, what criteria are used to decide whether the medium has scored a hit? Obviously if the person scoring the test believes in the afterlife, he will probably allow a larger margin of error with statements than someone who doesn't. Interpretation leads to ambiguity, and ambiguity leads to error.


    A major problem for the survival hypothesis and the subsequent interpretation of results is that it allows for other competing hypotheses. For example, it may be possible that information is gleaned via ESP from the sitter rather than from the deceased. It is not possible to tell the difference between the hypotheses if it is the sitter who verifies the information given.


    An obvious criterion for testing spirit communication is that the information passed should not require interpretation: it has to be unambiguous.




    As well as the information received being unambiguous and not subject to interpretation, another requirement is that no one involved in the experiment should know what the target information actually is. This blinding ensures that there is no possibility of information leakage. If no one knows what the information is meant to be, however, how can it be checked?


    The only way this can be done is if a terminally ill patient died whilst in possession of information that no one else was aware of. This information could be sent back or acquired by any number of ways and checked against a system that the target information influences. Although a person who knows they are dying could leave a message behind in a sealed envelope and the information checked on receipt, this leads to the problem of the test being a one-shot process: once the message is looked at for verification, it would become known and the test could not be re-run under the same strict conditions.


    To get around this problem, rather than check a written message it would be better to have some sort of code that affects another system. It could be something like a pass phrase that could be typed into a computer that will respond if it is correct. This, however, involves language and it’s possible that second-guessing the sort of phrase a person might have come up with could occur; or, in the case of a cipher being passed to decode an encrypted message, modern computers can crack simple ciphers with ease. Ideally the information should be completely random and should not be guessable or computable.


    A randomly generated number code gets around this problem. If a person memorised a 12-digit number (as 4 groups of 3) then no one could second-guess what this number might be or work it out be other means. This number could be used as a combination to a safe or strongbox. If the code is correct it will open the safe, if not it won’t and due to the trillion (1x1012) different combinations available the test could be done many times without previous attempts making any significant difference to the odds of someone/something getting the answer correct by chance.


    Most claimed spirit communication today is that claimed by mediums. Thiused from old-fashioned Ouija boards to modern interpretations of spirits influencing electronic equipment, or picking up information during an Out of Body Experience (OBE) or even in a dream. The method would not matter as it's the passing of information that is the important issue.


    Spirit motivation


    Some people believe that spirits only come through if there is sufficient motivation for them to do so. Obviously that's speculative, but it could still be accommodated within a test. If we use the safe's combination as the target, placing something of value or benefit to those left behind inside the safe could provide motivation. Such a step need only be included if it is thought that the motivation hypothesis has any merit; and in reality, that hypothesis could not be tested until afterlife communication had been established in the first place!


    Moral and ethical issues


    This would be a very long experiment indeed if people were picked at random to take part. The obvious candidates to use in such an experiment are terminally-ill patients and it clearly would not be right to start asking people who've been told they're dying to take part in an afterlife experiment. If a university psychology department in conjunction with medical staff in a hospital department did this, the experiment was carefully advertised, and participants could apply voluntarily, then it could possibly be run.


    The implications for humanity and religion would also need to be considered in case positive results were achieved as belief in the afterlife would no longer rely purely on faith.


    In summary


    To be able to test for an afterlife, the only way we can really do it is to check for the receipt of unambiguous information. This experiment could test for the existence of an afterlife, however, failure of such an experiment would not prove that an afterlife does not exist.


    So, we have a test that includes:


    Target information that is randomised;
    True blinding - no one knows, or could possibly work out, what the target information is;
    A specific hypothesis. The information could only arise from a single source, the deceased, thus ruling out competing hypotheses such as super-ESP;
    Spirit motivation - if required;
    Repeatability. The same test could be run numerous times without reducing the odds of a random guess success to a significant level;
    Unambiguous results. No judging or subjective validation of results is required.
    If such a test was to be carried out and information did come through successfully, it would be very difficult to argue against the outcome.


    I propose that a test such as this (hypothetical) one is the only way to really test for the existence of an afterlife. By removing the need for subjective interpretation, it becomes a dichotomous test: either the information gets passed and the safe opens or it doesn't.s, however, does not mean that they are an obvious choice of medium (no pun intended) for the information to be channeled through.


    Last edited by SpiritVoices on Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added information.)
    avatar
    SpiritVoices
    Member

    Female
    Number of posts : 13312
    Location : UK
    Job/hobbies : Retired
    Registration date : 2010-12-17

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  SpiritVoices on Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:54 pm

    Testing for the existence of an afterlife directly may not be possible, but if information can be passed from the dead to the living, its existence can potentially be proven.


    Although there is a lot of evidence for the afterlife from various sources, none of them are robust enough to offer anything in the way of proof. Even combining all of the evidence from all of the different fields of research still does not amount to proof (or evidence strong enough to overcome reasonable doubt).






    Finding proof of evidence from one who has passed to spirit.
    Has anyone ever planned any evidence to be passed to a relative or friend to prove who we are after death? 


    Something from memory of an event in life?
    A name?
    An address?
    A piece of clothing that would be remembered?
    A close relative mentioned who belonged in the family?


    No actual clues or names please.    Just an idea of what to pass on when we are in spirit.


    Joan 
    avatar
    Assumpta
    Member

    Female
    Number of posts : 333
    Age : 67
    Location : Los Olivos, Spain
    Job/hobbies : Retired, love reading, writing, cross-stitch and all things spiritual
    Registration date : 2011-06-23

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  Assumpta on Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:23 pm

    I personally don't need proof of the spirit world because I know it exists.  If I'm truly honest I'm not that bothered whether people believe or not because even for some people if a spirit appeared in front of them they still wouldn't believe.

    :choices:
    avatar
    CW
    Member

    Female
    Number of posts : 723
    Age : 59
    Location : USA
    Registration date : 2010-10-14

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  CW on Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:05 pm

    I have to agree with assumpta on this one, there were many times I came up with many rationalization myself. Just to help me make sense of what didn't seem possible.

    Today I am all the proof I need. I know I have a soul and one day I will be spirit form also.
    avatar
    SpiritVoices
    Member

    Female
    Number of posts : 13312
    Location : UK
    Job/hobbies : Retired
    Registration date : 2010-12-17

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  SpiritVoices on Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:41 pm

    Last evening I was given my first real evidence for a long time.
    I sometimes visit a spiritualist site on FB.   Not always can I make it.

    Popped in there yesterday and found to my surprise,a message from my mother.   Name was given,description was given and how she died was given.  That was all I needed.

    Everything given in a short message. I'm normally a bit of skeptic myself but the way the evidence was given and the content was given,I knew who it was straight away.

    No way could the person who gave that message have known my mother.

    Strangely enough I was starting to doubt spirit,but that brought me back to heel again....
    avatar
    SpiritVoices
    Member

    Female
    Number of posts : 13312
    Location : UK
    Job/hobbies : Retired
    Registration date : 2010-12-17

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  SpiritVoices on Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:46 pm

    Just to continue though...without giving any information away.

    If you were on the side of the spirit world,what kind of message would you send through to those who knew you well?

    Not the actual content but the form of the message that only you and  the person you were sending to,would know without a doubt it was from you.

    Forget names,forget your last address,some idea that you may have to prove who you are...

    Joan
    avatar
    CW
    Member

    Female
    Number of posts : 723
    Age : 59
    Location : USA
    Registration date : 2010-10-14

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  CW on Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:02 pm

    Humm.......:scratch:

    If you were on the side of the spirit world,what kind of message would you send through to those who knew you well?

    The same as what I've felt all my life, the sweet smell of perfume, a soft sit upon my bed, whisper their name, visit in their dreams,  one of my favorite is sending good, healing, vibrational signals to their ears. Rarely, do we see them in our awaken state. If I had the opportunity to make my spirit visible "I would."

    But let me say this" I have a very dear spiritual sister on this website that devote a little bit of her precious time to help me develop my spiritual communication skills. Through spirit communication we see each other all the time. I see her physical and spiritual self, while she challenges me with specific questions to aid in my development. Most of the time I am wrong but its okay we continue to work together.

    What I am trying to say here SV is we don't have to wait till we get to the other side to communicate spirit to spirit. 

    Love to all...
    avatar
    SpiritVoices
    Member

    Female
    Number of posts : 13312
    Location : UK
    Job/hobbies : Retired
    Registration date : 2010-12-17

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  SpiritVoices on Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:10 pm

    Thank you,CW.    I am slowly advancing bit by bit.   
    Was wondering what kind of message I would send to prove it was me.

    Personal events ok for my family but what of dear friends?
    Especially net friends....?   People who have never met me,don't know me too well in my personal life.

    Joan :asmile:
    avatar
    CW
    Member

    Female
    Number of posts : 723
    Age : 59
    Location : USA
    Registration date : 2010-10-14

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  CW on Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:53 pm

    Spirit knows spirit, I had a dear friend online who started another website just like Violet here. For many years I thought he was a woman because his nature was so gentle and kind. So it was only natural I associated him with a femininity. I didn't know he was male until after he pass away.

    Although I never met him physically his passing affected me the same. When I think of the messages he shared with me I feel the lost of his physical presence on this earth. 

    My heart felt love for him was so intense that on his death date the following year after his passing I experience a spirit visitor in the form of a bird.

    I shared the experience here on SI only to find out that this experience happened on his death date. If spirits have a certain quota of people they can visit at a time I am happy when the ones I love choose me.

    Love to all....


    Last edited by CW on Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    SpiritVoices
    Member

    Female
    Number of posts : 13312
    Location : UK
    Job/hobbies : Retired
    Registration date : 2010-12-17

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  SpiritVoices on Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:03 pm

    [b style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(92, 87, 126); font-family: 'Comic Sans Ms', sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(236, 230, 237);"]The big problem with such things as EVPs, NDEs, and of course mediums, is that the results and experiences are interpreted. We all have inbuilt biases that lead us to interpret things in ways that we want or expect to see. When researchers are testing mediums by getting them to do blinded readings (e.g. using proxy sitters) for people, for example, what criteria are used to decide whether the medium has scored a hit? Obviously if the person scoring the test believes in the afterlife, he will probably allow a larger margin of error with statements than someone who doesn't. Interpretation leads to ambiguity, and ambiguity leads to error.[/b]




    This is the paragraph that I find interesting.    'Interpretation leads to ambiguity and ambiguity leads to errors....'     
    Meaning interpretations of messages can be incorrect...


    Joan
    avatar
    SpiritVoices
    Member

    Female
    Number of posts : 13312
    Location : UK
    Job/hobbies : Retired
    Registration date : 2010-12-17

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  SpiritVoices on Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:10 pm

    CW wrote:Spirit knows spirit, I had a dear friend online who started another website just like Violet here. For many years I thought he was a woman because his nature was so gentle and kind. So it was only natural I associated him with a femininity. I didn't know he was male until after he pass away.

    Although I never met him physically his passing affected me the same. When I think of the messages he shared with me I feel the lost of his physical presence on this earth. 

    My heart felt love for him was so intense that on his death date the following year after his passing I experience a spirit visitor in the form of a bird.

    I shared the experience here on SI only to find out that this experience happened on his death date. If spirits have a certain quota of people they can visit at a time I am happy when they choose me.

    Love to all....

     That is beautiful,CW.    Internet friends and I mean good internet friends can have a very deep effect on our lives.   I must have made several good net friends but some I have lost and some are still with me.  
    Those are the one I call friends that upon my death (getting on a bit now...:blush: )
    I have asked my daughter to let those net friends know that I'm not here any more.
    I know exactly how you feel....
    Joan xx
    avatar
    CW
    Member

    Female
    Number of posts : 723
    Age : 59
    Location : USA
    Registration date : 2010-10-14

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  CW on Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:23 pm

    Let me say... I will miss you if you were no longer here. As you can see I missed you after you changed your name. I was searching all over this website for you. Finally I gave up :whiteflag2:  and asked Violet to help me find you.

    :hugsquish:
    avatar
    SpiritVoices
    Member

    Female
    Number of posts : 13312
    Location : UK
    Job/hobbies : Retired
    Registration date : 2010-12-17

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  SpiritVoices on Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:32 pm

    I did that for a reason,CW.   As you know.

    Anyway,felt like a change of user name....:asmile: 

    I remember seeing you when I first registered here and many others on here I made good friends with.   I remember Peter,1antique,Shayn, and many others.
    i must have registered here in about 2008 or 9.   Have a feeling I was still in Australia,not sure.

    It has been one of my favourite sites.    
    Let's hope it never goes down like so many other sites have done.
    I just know that Violet will never allow that to happen.....


    Thank you,my friend.....
    :thanku: 

    Joan xxx
    avatar
    Violet
    Admin

    Female
    Number of posts : 24346
    Location : UK
    Registration date : 2009-02-15

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  Violet on Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:20 pm

    CW wrote:Spirit knows spirit, I had a dear friend online who started another website just like Violet here. For many years I thought he was a woman because his nature was so gentle and kind. So it was only natural I associated him with a femininity. I didn't know he was male until after he pass away.

    Although I never met him physically his passing affected me the same. When I think of the messages he shared with me I feel the lost of his physical presence on this earth. 

    My heart felt love for him was so intense that on his death date the following year after his passing I experience a spirit visitor in the form of a bird.

    I shared the experience here on SI only to find out that this experience happened on his death date. If spirits have a certain quota of people they can visit at a time I am happy when the ones I love choose me.

    Love to all....
    If this is the same beautiful delicate soul I knew too I totally understand you....
    Although I never met him physically his passing affected me the sam

    e.   
    I think many loved this one you couldn't help but love him



    Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly.
    avatar
    CW
    Member

    Female
    Number of posts : 723
    Age : 59
    Location : USA
    Registration date : 2010-10-14

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  CW on Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:49 pm

    I know and understand your reason SV, my point here is that you are one of the many souls here that have touched my heart.

    When I say  "Love to all" I mean it.  When I say "I love you" I mean it too.

    I'd rather know your soul than your body, gender, profession or any other external package.
    Because of egotistical packaging and camouflaged blindness, we rarely even get a glimpse of the soul.  

    IMO, spirit to spirit communication will help us recognize each other even in the after life.

    I knew spiritvoices was sharing like the person I came to know and love, but I needed some one to confirm it for me. :hugz:


    I have asked my daughter to let those net friends know that I'm not here any more.
    I know exactly how you feel....

    I did the same.

    Yes Violet it is the same person, his teachings will always be apart of me! As same for you violet, in my eyes you will always be my daisy!

    Love to all.....
    avatar
    SpiritVoices
    Member

    Female
    Number of posts : 13312
    Location : UK
    Job/hobbies : Retired
    Registration date : 2010-12-17

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  SpiritVoices on Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:49 pm

    A lovely way of, putting it CD.

    It is nice to know that someone cares.   Not many do these days...

    Joan :hugz:

    spiritone*
    Member

    Number of posts : 63
    Registration date : 2013-07-08

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  spiritone* on Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:26 pm

    SpiritVoices wrote:Just to continue though...without giving any information away.

    If you were on the side of the spirit world,what kind of message would you send through to those who knew you well?

    Not the actual content but the form of the message that only you and  the person you were sending to,would know without a doubt it was from you.

    Forget names,forget your last address,some idea that you may have to prove who you are...

    Joan
    Joan, I have told Ken that when I come back to him I will hide all his hats that are all over the house. I know when I do that he will know it's me for sure. My husband loves to collect sports hats, at one time he had over 200 but when we moved he gave a lot away. 
    I don't really need proof of afterlife myself, seeing my grandmother and her 3 children who passed very young was proof enough for me. Of course the rest of my family think I'm nuts! I know the truth and that's all that matters.
    I believe with the vail disappearing we will have more proof of afterlife existence very shortly.:bfs:
    avatar
    SpiritVoices
    Member

    Female
    Number of posts : 13312
    Location : UK
    Job/hobbies : Retired
    Registration date : 2010-12-17

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  SpiritVoices on Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:58 pm

    spiritone* wrote:
    SpiritVoices wrote:Just to continue though...without giving any information away.

    If you were on the side of the spirit world,what kind of message would you send through to those who knew you well?

    Not the actual content but the form of the message that only you and  the person you were sending to,would know without a doubt it was from you.

    Forget names,forget your last address,some idea that you may have to prove who you are...

    Joan
    Joan, I have told Ken that when I come back to him I will hide all his hats that are all over the house. I know when I do that he will know it's me for sure. My husband loves to collect sports hats, at one time he had over 200 but when we moved he gave a lot away. 
    I don't really need proof of afterlife myself, seeing my grandmother and her 3 children who passed very young was proof enough for me. Of course the rest of my family think I'm nuts! I know the truth and that's all that matters.
    I believe with the vail disappearing we will have more proof of afterlife existence very shortly.:bfs:

     Now that is a great idea....:giggles: 

    With my Ken it would have been watches.   He loved fixing watches.
    He loved Xmas,no matter how ill he was,he would insist on putting up the Tinsel etc.
    Last Xmas I saw him for the first time since he died.
    Just a vague outline standing in front of the Xmas tree.
    Came home from my daughter's feeling a little low,switched tree lights on and sat there in the partial darkness.
    I looked up at the tree and for about 2 seconds,I 'saw' him!
    The first I noticed he was wearing his Aussie army hat.
    Then he was gone....:worry: 
    Joan xxx

    Sponsored content

    Re: Proof of Spirit Life.

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:14 am