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    Toltec Wisdom

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    somnium
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    Toltec Wisdom

    Post  somnium on Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:16 am

    The body is awareness. There are two sides of the body, the tonal or the known
    side, and the nagual or the unknown side. These are called sides for descriptive
    terms only. The tonal contains all of the information you have come to know, all
    the knowledge you have thus far assimilated. The tonal is responsible for
    forming the world that you know. One could say that the tonal is made of an
    inventory of all the details and facts we have seen and decided were truths.
    There are many different types of tonals, for example a sorcerer's tonal, and a
    corrupt or bad tonal. A corrupt tonal is the type of person who contains
    negative inventories of the world, possessing and selecting draining attributes,
    curses and the sort. A sorcerer's tonal can be pretty much any formation of a
    tonal imaginable, depending on the reason. A sorcerer possesses specialised
    knowledge that the average man does not. The sorcerer chooses not any kind of
    knowledge that graces his path, but is carefully waiting, hunting for a specific
    type of knowledge.

    The Nagual is the unknown. The nagual exists outside
    of our awareness, but comes into us as we live the unknown. We then process this
    information, and create our new enhanced inventory based from the experience. A
    seasoned warrior will gain cohesion, or stability on new information and lessons
    by reliving them, and pondering. This art of gaining cohesion is called stalking
    awareness. With practice a warrior can move his awareness to the exact positions
    realised in his hunting and his dreaming, or he can guide his awareness little
    by little towards the positions found, which is also stalking awareness.


    Average people's tonals are conditioned to the point of near immobility,
    which means their awareness is totally fixed in his position. We must remember
    that this is a feat of awareness that has been carefully practiced and developed
    into what it is today. This is done through repetition and habituation. The same
    methods are used to free the fixation of awareness. With practice one learns to
    dislodge their awareness and gain fluidity. Once awareness is in motion, energy
    can flow freely, and one can develop their navigation skills. All of these
    pursuits are the knowledges one must hunt and store for themselves. It is their
    own relationship with the nagual that they must cultivate.

    The rigidness
    of the tonal must first be addressed if one is to gain fluidity. We must learn
    to be both flexible and unbending, and we must learn to decide. In the immensity
    of infinite will there are only choices to be made, for every path already
    exists, somewhere out there. We must tell ourselves reality is a position of
    awareness. Hunting of this concept should lead to some useful treasures.


    Since the average person's awareness is rigid the path offers practices
    and descriptions. The first description that comes to mind is the shrinking of
    the tonal. This happens when our tonal fails to uphold what it is trying to
    uphold, when the inventory fails to know. Our knowledge fails, and something new
    takes place, something totally outside our average parameters. Anything can take
    place because our natural barriers are down and we know it. Since the tonal
    effectively shrinks, it gives the nagual its place in the sun. Humbleness is a
    natural trait the warrior develops because he see that the nagual is immense and
    powerful compared to the small body of awareness of the tonal. The warrior
    works at creating a balanced relationship between the tonal and the nagual. The
    two should be made to support each other. The tonal should be a protector and
    not a guard. We must allow the nagual to enrich our lives and not cling to our
    tonals. This means we must accept that there is a lot that we do not know out
    there, and what we think we know is merely a description of something that is
    much larger.

    Another practice offered in the Toltec way is the abstract
    concept of doing and not-doing. Doings are all the actions we do in the tonal
    world. Not-doings are actions and steps taken that are performed in the nagual.
    In a way it is to do things differently almost magically. It allows the nagual
    to flow into our actions and unfold into our lives. To look at a mountain is a
    doing in the normal world, to look to see the nagual in the mountain is a
    not-doing. The mountain then can become something more and your perception can
    shift into the unknown. With a slight movement of awareness one can observe
    their actions and see the energies of their actions. All it takes is a new
    perspective, a different way to look at something, or do something, and you have
    started to move your actions into the nagual.

    Since our incredibly
    precious energies are all used up and stored in our tonal bodies, and in our
    egos, we must learn to conserve ourselves. We must stalk ourselves very closely
    and examine our habituated patterns. A large amount of what we are is waisted in
    upholding our self-importance. We spend a lot of energy upholding it and in
    return our self-importance usually tells us we cant do something because of this
    or that reason. As fluid energy that moves freely you can accomplish anything
    you want to. The path calls it the energy body, and the energy body can do
    anything perfectly. All we have to do is find it and flow. There is no self-pity
    here because it is the position of no doubt. Any concept that is limiting the
    flow of awareness should be counteracted and eliminated. Any concept that is
    destructive should be rethought. One must act in this world, and that is what we
    are... actors.
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    SpiritVoices
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    Re: Toltec Wisdom

    Post  SpiritVoices on Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:42 am

    That is a subject I have never heard of before. But interesting but takes a while to digest.

    It rings a bell with me,now where have I read this before?

    Thanks
    Joanie.
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    somnium
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    Re: Toltec Wisdom

    Post  somnium on Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:52 pm

    Joanie wrote:That is a subject I have never heard of before. But interesting but takes a while to digest.

    It rings a bell with me,now where have I read this before?

    Thanks
    Joanie.

    I wrote this by myself, however it does reference from some books I have read, and some spirits too. Carlos Castaneda wrote an excellent anthropological study on Toltec knowledge. I am very grateful for his works.
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    Re: Toltec Wisdom

    Post  SpiritVoices on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:15 am

    Are you saying in life,we act with certain issues?
    One side for and one side against? Or one side is very conscious of our doings and the other side is not.

    Joanie
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    somnium
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    Re: Toltec Wisdom

    Post  somnium on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:18 pm

    The two sides of the luminous being are not generally opposites or opposing. In fact the goal in the Toltec way is to build a harmonious relationship between the two sides, so they support each other. The one side we know everything about because it is the tonal, or the knowingness we have learnt. This side possesses our knowledge of everything we know. It is our known awareness. It is said that the other side of our awareness comes from outside of ourselves, because it is all the unknown awareness one has never seen, never heard of, or experienced. It is said that this unknown side is much larger and much more powerful than our finite knowledge. The nagual is responsible for what we learn, and has within it the potential of everything unknown. Although it is referred to as a side it is not in any way a half in proportion. The nagual consists of all the unknown awareness of infinity.
    There are different kinds of tonals, there are bad tonal, good tonals, proper tonals, and tonal of our times. A bad tonal is a person who has negative knowledges in his body, and uses curses and abusive language. A good tonal is someone who looks on the bright side of life, is not resentful and generally helpful with what they know. The tonal of our times is referred to as the common knowledge that our race generally possess'.
    It is said that the tonal creates the images, or perceptions of the world, based upon what we know, our knowledge. The nagual is something that comes form outside this bubble of perception, and being unknown can actually threaten the integrity of our forms. The nagual, when it comes, brings the unknown elements into our bubbles. This can expand our knowledge and perception and can also collapse our bubbles.
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    Re: Toltec Wisdom

    Post  SpiritVoices on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:25 am

    somnium wrote:The two sides of the luminous being are not generally opposites or opposing. In fact the goal in the Toltec way is to build a harmonious relationship between the two sides, so they support each other. The one side we know everything about because it is the tonal, or the knowingness we have learnt. This side possesses our knowledge of everything we know. It is our known awareness. It is said that the other side of our awareness comes from outside of ourselves, because it is all the unknown awareness one has never seen, never heard of, or experienced. It is said that this unknown side is much larger and much more powerful than our finite knowledge. The nagual is responsible for what we learn, and has within it the potential of everything unknown. Although it is referred to as a side it is not in any way a half in proportion. The nagual consists of all the unknown awareness of infinity.
    There are different kinds of tonals, there are bad tonal, good tonals, proper tonals, and tonal of our times. A bad tonal is a person who has negative knowledges in his body, and uses curses and abusive language. A good tonal is someone who looks on the bright side of life, is not resentful and generally helpful with what they know. The tonal of our times is referred to as the common knowledge that our race generally possess'.
    It is said that the tonal creates the images, or perceptions of the world, based upon what we know, our knowledge. The nagual is something that comes form outside this bubble of perception, and being unknown can actually threaten the integrity of our forms. The nagual, when it comes, brings the unknown elements into our bubbles. This can expand our knowledge and perception and can also collapse our bubbles.

    Right,I understand now what you are saying,Somnium.
    Would you connect this to a sort of Ying-yang?
    Did I ask that question? But it does remind me of the same thing.
    A general balancing of the body. An uneven balancing affects the personality of the person involved.
    Cheers
    Joanie
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    Wisa'ka
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    Re: Toltec Wisdom

    Post  Wisa'ka on Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:46 pm

    somnium wrote:The body is awareness. There are two sides of the body, the tonal or the known
    side, and the nagual or the unknown side. These are called sides for descriptive
    terms only. The tonal contains all of the information you have come to know, all
    the knowledge you have thus far assimilated. The tonal is responsible for
    forming the world that you know. One could say that the tonal is made of an
    inventory of all the details and facts we have seen and decided were truths.
    There are many different types of tonals, for example a sorcerer's tonal, and a
    corrupt or bad tonal. A corrupt tonal is the type of person who contains
    negative inventories of the world, possessing and selecting draining attributes,
    curses and the sort. A sorcerer's tonal can be pretty much any formation of a
    tonal imaginable, depending on the reason. A sorcerer possesses specialised
    knowledge that the average man does not. The sorcerer chooses not any kind of
    knowledge that graces his path, but is carefully waiting, hunting for a specific
    type of knowledge.

    The Nagual is the unknown. The nagual exists outside
    of our awareness, but comes into us as we live the unknown. We then process this
    information, and create our new enhanced inventory based from the experience. A
    seasoned warrior will gain cohesion, or stability on new information and lessons
    by reliving them, and pondering. This art of gaining cohesion is called stalking
    awareness. With practice a warrior can move his awareness to the exact positions
    realised in his hunting and his dreaming, or he can guide his awareness little
    by little towards the positions found, which is also stalking awareness.


    Average people's tonals are conditioned to the point of near immobility,
    which means their awareness is totally fixed in his position. We must remember
    that this is a feat of awareness that has been carefully practiced and developed
    into what it is today. This is done through repetition and habituation. The same
    methods are used to free the fixation of awareness. With practice one learns to
    dislodge their awareness and gain fluidity. Once awareness is in motion, energy
    can flow freely, and one can develop their navigation skills. All of these
    pursuits are the knowledges one must hunt and store for themselves. It is their
    own relationship with the nagual that they must cultivate.

    The rigidness
    of the tonal must first be addressed if one is to gain fluidity. We must learn
    to be both flexible and unbending, and we must learn to decide. In the immensity
    of infinite will there are only choices to be made, for every path already
    exists, somewhere out there. We must tell ourselves reality is a position of
    awareness. Hunting of this concept should lead to some useful treasures.


    Since the average person's awareness is rigid the path offers practices
    and descriptions. The first description that comes to mind is the shrinking of
    the tonal. This happens when our tonal fails to uphold what it is trying to
    uphold, when the inventory fails to know. Our knowledge fails, and something new
    takes place, something totally outside our average parameters. Anything can take
    place because our natural barriers are down and we know it. Since the tonal
    effectively shrinks, it gives the nagual its place in the sun. Humbleness is a
    natural trait the warrior develops because he see that the nagual is immense and
    powerful compared to the small body of awareness of the tonal. The warrior
    works at creating a balanced relationship between the tonal and the nagual. The
    two should be made to support each other. The tonal should be a protector and
    not a guard. We must allow the nagual to enrich our lives and not cling to our
    tonals. This means we must accept that there is a lot that we do not know out
    there, and what we think we know is merely a description of something that is
    much larger.

    Another practice offered in the Toltec way is the abstract
    concept of doing and not-doing. Doings are all the actions we do in the tonal
    world. Not-doings are actions and steps taken that are performed in the nagual.
    In a way it is to do things differently almost magically. It allows the nagual
    to flow into our actions and unfold into our lives. To look at a mountain is a
    doing in the normal world, to look to see the nagual in the mountain is a
    not-doing. The mountain then can become something more and your perception can
    shift into the unknown. With a slight movement of awareness one can observe
    their actions and see the energies of their actions. All it takes is a new
    perspective, a different way to look at something, or do something, and you have
    started to move your actions into the nagual.

    Since our incredibly
    precious energies are all used up and stored in our tonal bodies, and in our
    egos, we must learn to conserve ourselves. We must stalk ourselves very closely
    and examine our habituated patterns. A large amount of what we are is waisted in
    upholding our self-importance. We spend a lot of energy upholding it and in
    return our self-importance usually tells us we cant do something because of this
    or that reason. As fluid energy that moves freely you can accomplish anything
    you want to. The path calls it the energy body, and the energy body can do
    anything perfectly. All we have to do is find it and flow. There is no self-pity
    here because it is the position of no doubt. Any concept that is limiting the
    flow of awareness should be counteracted and eliminated. Any concept that is
    destructive should be rethought. One must act in this world, and that is what we
    are... actors.

    And what do you base this information regarding Toltec wisdom upon ?
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    Wisa'ka
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    Re: Toltec Wisdom

    Post  Wisa'ka on Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:49 pm

    Joanie wrote:That is a subject I have never heard of before. But interesting but takes a while to digest.

    It rings a bell with me,now where have I read this before?

    Thanks
    Joanie.

    Carlos Castaneda books perhaps?
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    somnium
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    Re: Toltec Wisdom

    Post  somnium on Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:28 pm

    One of the important things in Toltec philosophy is that all the inventories created from reality are temporary. They practice the art of creating these inventories, seeing them work, and then discarding them. When they discard them all the values in effect disappear and others begin to take their place. Once the position of awareness is fluid it is free to move and assemble new ideas of the world. New understanding is available because the energy taken to hold the world fixated begins to free itself.
    They describe positions of awareness for the apprentices to find, such as the position of no doubt, the position of seeing, the position of silent knowledge, the position of rationality, etc.
    They further defined the movement of awareness to two categories or techniques, stalking awareness and dreaming awareness. Stalking awareness is a gradual or slow movement of awareness that results in a gradual change of awareness. When the position of awareness moves fast and far they call it dreaming awareness. When awareness shifts, or moves, perception is altered to match. Awareness and perception are one and the same, a single unit.
    Personally I find that as awareness moves I receive insights, realisations, ideas and new information. Sometimes I receive visions or lessons where the world seems to come to life and become a teacher. The right kind of knowledge becomes available and activates itself.
    One of the greatest practices is removing self-importance, the ego developed that spends too much energy. They say that self-importance developed after mankind lost its connection with the silent knowledge. Once men were able to understand things directly, see energy directly, but had lost his connection and thus started seeing himself as a separate being, an individual and naturally grew detached from his connecting link to will. This developed a condition called self-pity. This is why apprentices try to reach the position of no doubt, a powerful position that removes all doubt from the action. They do this by stalking themselves closely, and removing all the un-needed energies from their awareness.
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    Re: Toltec Wisdom

    Post  somnium on Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:32 pm

    Wisa'ka wrote:
    Joanie wrote:That is a subject I have never heard of before. But interesting but takes a while to digest.

    It rings a bell with me,now where have I read this before?

    Thanks
    Joanie.

    Carlos Castaneda books perhaps?
    He is the most well known anthropologist regarding Toltec philosophy but not the only one. he seemed to have started the small Toltec movement.
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    Re: Toltec Wisdom

    Post  somnium on Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:41 pm

    Wisa'ka wrote:
    And what do you base this information regarding Toltec wisdom upon ?

    I base it on my experiences with the path. I study different ways of living and the Toltec way has been most liberating. I found that any lesson can be learned and the Toltec way always offered a way of doing the impossible. Very appealing to someone like me. The Toltec wisdom I share has opened my experience to include new worlds.
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    Re: Toltec Wisdom

    Post  Wisa'ka on Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:42 pm

    somnium wrote:
    Wisa'ka wrote:
    Joanie wrote:That is a subject I have never heard of before. But interesting but takes a while to digest.

    It rings a bell with me,now where have I read this before?

    Thanks
    Joanie.

    Carlos Castaneda books perhaps?
    He is the most well known anthropologist regarding Toltec philosophy but not the only one. he seemed to have started the small Toltec movement.

    In the opinions of most traditional NDNs as well as others Castaneda is a fraud and Don Juan Matus is just a figment of his imagination. By the way, I read his books as well, they made for some interesting fictional reading.

    May I recommend you doing some research on Ms. Corine Fairbanks along with others involved in the American Indian Movement and their concerns about frauds, plastic shamans and medicine men?
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    somnium
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    Re: Toltec Wisdom

    Post  somnium on Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:46 am

    I am glad some say he is a fraud, because the stuff he teaches is beyond the horizons of many others. I have learnt marvels from reading his works and I am not a fraud. I have found a lot of people that follow closely his works and teachings, many more then people who dislike it actually. To each their own I suppose. I personally took his writings and experiences as the true tales that he says they are.
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    Wisa'ka
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    Re: Toltec Wisdom

    Post  Wisa'ka on Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:56 am

    somnium wrote:I am glad some say he is a fraud, because the stuff he teaches is beyond the horizons of many others. I have learnt marvels from reading his works and I am not a fraud. I have found a lot of people that follow closely his works and teachings, many more then people who dislike it actually. To each their own I suppose. I personally took his writings and experiences as the true tales that he says they are.

    Greetings somnium.

    Do some research and you'll see Castaneda was just as much as a fraud as is Lynn Andrews. But if you decide to forego that research, than yes to each their own, where ever that may be.
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    Re: Toltec Wisdom

    Post  somnium on Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:49 pm

    Wisa'ka wrote:
    somnium wrote:I am glad some say he is a fraud, because the stuff he teaches is beyond the horizons of many others. I have learnt marvels from reading his works and I am not a fraud. I have found a lot of people that follow closely his works and teachings, many more then people who dislike it actually. To each their own I suppose. I personally took his writings and experiences as the true tales that he says they are.


    Greetings somnium.

    Do some research and you'll see Castaneda was just as much as a fraud as is Lynn Andrews. But if you decide to forego that research, than yes to each their own, where ever that may be.
    Greetings. I did a search and found all this awesome stuff about Toltec philosophy, and some about sidhe. It appears to me that nagualism has been around for milenia, orgininating in mexico, these beings are powerful and mystical, with great abilities.
    In my opinion Carlos Castaneda did his readers a great service by offering them into a way of heightened awareness, or even shedding light on the fact that awareness can move. He set the way into these states of awareness, I can only imagine where it has taken some people.

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