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    What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

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    mac
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    What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  mac on Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:17 am

    Christmas is coming and with it comes all the gooey, sentimental tripe, synthetic love, gaudy imported decorations, retail madness and absurd over-idulgence that our western society demands to 'celebrate' Christmas.

    Throw into this mix a fantasy story about someone born two millennia ago. Teach children the nonsense that Jesus came to save the world and was the 'Son of God'. Boost the collective mania by singing carols with a theme which is totally opposite to that of Spiritualism's simple message.

    It's hard, of course, not to travel that same road we've been walking since the time we were tiny, a road we were conditioned to walk by parents, grandparents, schooling and the dictates of society.

    Oh it doesn't matter, it's just a bit of fun for the kids, it doesn't do 'em any harm to believe in Santa - it's Christmas! You've all heard this stuff - you might even say the same yourself. And it is right that believing in Santa is a bit of fun for small kids. Left at that its fine. Trouble is all the Christmassy stuff gets mixed and muddled in a child's mind and years later those kids have become adults who are then totally muddled about Jesus and God and Christmas and Easter and....well you get my point.

    Spiritualism? Oh yes. That's what I was getting to. Spiritualism? Isn't that all about getting message at the spooks church?

    Does Spiritualism really have anything to say about Jesus and about Christmas?

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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  SpiritVoices on Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:13 pm

    I remembered reading one of SB's books.
    Can't remember the exact words but he suggested that if we wanted to we could still celebrate Xmas but as a festive occasion.
    That would be when our time came to leave this earth and enter the spirit world.
    So I took it that he meant the spirit world did not accept the birth of Christ as a festive occasion.
    So I assume that goes for Spiritualism as well.

    What once surprised me,was the spiritualist church closed down in our area,through Xmas.
    Was that in celebration of Christ's birthday or no belief in Xmas?
    You've asked a hard question there,Mac still trying to fathom out the answer.
    Or maybe I'm just dumb. :blush:

    :asmile:

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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  mac on Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:36 pm

    Joanie wrote:I remembered reading one of SB's books.
    Can't remember the exact words but he suggested that if we wanted to we could still celebrate Xmas but as a festive occasion.
    That would be when our time came to leave this earth and enter the spirit world.
    So I took it that he meant the spirit world did not accept the birth of Christ as a festive occasion.
    So I assume that goes for Spiritualism as well.

    What once surprised me,was the spiritualist church closed down in our area,through Xmas.
    Was that in celebration of Christ's birthday or no belief in Xmas?
    You've asked a hard question there,Mac still trying to fathom out the answer.
    Or maybe I'm just dumb. :blush:

    :asmile:

    There's nothing dumb about thinking this stuff through, Joanie. You've come WAY closer than anyone else thus far....
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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  1antique on Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:42 pm

    I love this post, mac. I brings up a very good point about stuffing the minds full of tripe. But, at the same time, it didn't go far enough. You forgot to mention the fact that ALL religions were created by a primitive people attempting to make sense out of natural things that they could not understand. They created myths and stories to ease worries and fears. These myths and stories slowly evolved and changed into the beliefs (including spirituality) that we see today.



    Now, with this thought in mind, is it ok to teach our children ANY of of these stories as fact, or should we merely teach them that these ARE myths created by us to help us lead a better life through the stories told?

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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  mac on Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:53 pm

    1antique wrote:I love this post, mac. I brings up a very good point about stuffing the minds full of tripe. But, at the same time, it didn't go far enough. You forgot to mention the fact that ALL religions were created by a primitive people attempting to make sense out of natural things that they could not understand. They created myths and stories to ease worries and fears. These myths and stories slowly evolved and changed into the beliefs (including spirituality) that we see today.



    Now, with this thought in mind, is it ok to teach our children ANY of of these stories as fact, or should we merely teach them that these ARE myths created by us to help us lead a better life through the stories told?

    I assure you, my antique friend, that mac didn't forget any of the stuff you've mentioned above and the subject went exactly as far as it was intended to go.

    Please don't confuse my asking a question with my not knowing its answer.....

    The topic is doing just what it was intended to do. enjoy!
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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  1antique on Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:55 pm

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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  SpiritVoices on Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:16 pm

    Another point,Mac.

    What about Easter?
    Easter is considered another festive occasion.
    Though not on the same scale as Xmas.
    Christ rising from the dead?
    I would say that makes a lot more sense.
    How does spiritualism see that?
    :yeeess:

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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  mac on Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:14 pm

    Joanie wrote:Another point,Mac.

    What about Easter?
    Easter is considered another festive occasion.
    Though not on the same scale as Xmas.
    Christ rising from the dead?
    I would say that makes a lot more sense.
    How does spiritualism see that?
    :yeeees:

    I'd love to see you present that in another and different thread, Joanie.....

    Members can then offer their thoughts away from this one to avoid getting muddled by the different subject matter....
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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  SpiritVoices on Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:38 pm

    Sorry Mac.
    Will do that.
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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  Violet on Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:34 pm

    Christmas is coming and with it comes all the gooey, sentimental tripe, synthetic love, gaudy imported decorations, retail madness and absurd over-idulgence that our western society demands to 'celebrate' Christmas.


    None of this is necessary and it saddens me to see people tying themselves in knots every year, christmas is now a competition all about 'keeping up with the jones'



    Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly.
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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  Violet on Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:42 pm

    I remembered reading one of SB's books.
    Can't remember the exact words but he suggested that if we wanted to we could still celebrate Xmas but as a festive occasion.

    Hi Joanie I know this quote may not be word for word what Silver Birch said, (you already said that ) but frankly i'd be quite shocked by any spirit giving us 'permission' to celebrate Xmas and even going so far as telling us how we should celebrate it.



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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  SpiritVoices on Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:50 am

    Violet wrote:
    I remembered reading one of SB's books.
    Can't remember the exact words but he suggested that if we wanted to we could still celebrate Xmas but as a festive occasion.

    Hi Joanie I know this quote may not be word for word what Silver Birch said, (you already said that ) but frankly i'd be quite shocked by any spirit giving us 'permission' to celebrate Xmas and even going so far as telling us how we should celebrate it.

    Exactly,Violet.
    How we enjoy Xmas is our own decision.
    Mostly it is to give children some wonderful memories throughout their later lives.
    By then they know there is no such person as Santa Claus.
    And accept it.
    :love:

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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  mac on Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:11 am

    Violet wrote:
    I remembered reading one of SB's books.
    Can't remember the exact words but he suggested that if we wanted to we could still celebrate Xmas but as a festive occasion.

    Hi Joanie I know this quote may not be word for word what Silver Birch said, (you already said that ) but frankly i'd be quite shocked by any spirit giving us 'permission' to celebrate Xmas and even going so far as telling us how we should celebrate it.

    The exact wording is important - since I 'lent' out my books I can't look them up but I'm certain he didn't suggest so-called celebrations of the kind seen nowadays....

    It may also be useful to reflect that SB isn't Spiritualism. I've been told off by angry individuals in the past for saying that!

    The teacher's words and ideas are, though, almost inextricably linked to Spiritualist philosophy but Modern Spiritualism took off before SB emerged through his trance medium (his 'instrument') Maurice Barbanell,
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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  SpiritVoices on Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:49 am

    I have loaned my book out as well.

    But the approx words SB used were Xmas was not celebrated in spirit as it is celebrated in our world if it was celebrated at all.
    Reason being JC's birthday.
    But we could still gather with friends and loved ones if we wished to,and still held to our old beliefs of the physical world.
    I assume he meant new arrivals in spirit.
    My own opinion,those beliefs would disappear in time as we progessed.
    :asmile:

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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  mac on Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:38 am

    Joanie wrote:I have loaned my book out as well.

    But the approx words SB used were Xmas was not celebrated in spirit as it is celebrated in our world if it was celebrated at all.
    Reason being JC's birthday.
    But we could still gather with friends and loved ones if we wished to,and still held to our old beliefs of the physical world.
    I assume he meant new arrivals in spirit.
    My own opinion,those beliefs would disappear in time as we progessed.
    :asmile:

    With only my memory to rely on ( unwise I know ) I'd say you're pretty close to the mark... good job auntie J!

    Course he wouldn't have referred to JC - that's your shorthand I fancy?
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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  SpiritVoices on Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:16 am

    Mac,if you go back to your copy of the book titled 'What Dreams May Come' find the appropriate place where it is mentioned about religions,you will find a little piece in there pertaining to the fact that when new arrivals arrive in the spirit world,they are still believers,most of them anyway,of their own religions.

    They can still attend what ever church or religion they believe in,until they are otherwise convinced that religion does not mean anything in spirit.
    That there only one being we believe in and that is the Great Spirit.
    That last sentence is mine,by the way. :wink:

    Remember the author of the book did a great deal of research on the world of spirit so wondered if that chapter on religion was taken from the information from SB.

    Same as living in the spirit World,sometimes it must have taken a long time for new arrivals to accept that the world of spirit was wholly different from the earth plane in most things.
    Hence the belief in Xmas could have taken quite a long time to disappear. New arrivals still wanted to celebrate how they felt about the birth of Christ as they knew and remembered.
    :love:

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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  mac on Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:36 am

    [quote="Joanie"

    ]Mac,if you go back to your copy of the book titled 'What Dreams May Come' find the appropriate place where it is mentioned about religions,you will find a little piece in there pertaining to the fact that when new arrivals arrive in the spirit world,they are still believers,most of them anyway,of their own religions. I didn't need to find the book, Joanie, but thanks....

    They can still attend what ever church or religion they believe in,until they are otherwise convinced that religion does not mean anything in spirit.
    That there only one being we believe in and that is the Great Spirit.
    That last sentence is mine,by the way. :wink:

    Remember the author of the book did a great deal of research on the world of spirit so wondered if that chapter on religion was taken from the information from SB. Taking a look at the bibliography at the back of the book it can be seen that ideas are taken from many, many sources. In parts that technique has caused it to be a mish-mash of ideas - the film is less burdened with them....

    Same as living in the spirit World,sometimes it must have taken a long time for new arrivals to accept that the world of spirit was wholly different from the earth plane in most things.
    Hence the belief in Xmas could have taken quite a long time to disappear. New arrivals still wanted to celebrate how they felt about the birth of Christ as they knew and remembered. We'd be wandering, Joanie, if we walk any further down a path of considering what individuals believe.
    :love:
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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  SpiritVoices on Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:10 am

    I know I'm wandering off the beaten track. :blush:

    But bringing Xmas into set my thoughts going about religion.
    That led to the spirit world and Siver Birch and finally the movie and book about the afterlife.

    My mind tends to shoot off on different branches of the topic.
    I like to see everything as a whole.

    :giggles:

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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  mac on Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:24 am

    Joanie wrote:I know I'm wandering off the beaten track. :blush:

    But bringing Xmas into set my thoughts going about religion.
    That led to the spirit world and Siver Birch and finally the movie and book about the afterlife.

    My mind tends to shoot off on different branches of the topic.
    I like to see everything as a whole.

    :giggles:

    At times, though, I find a clear, single focus helps pin matters down. Holistic can be good, but isn't for every situation....
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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  SpiritVoices on Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:35 pm

    mac wrote:
    Joanie wrote:I know I'm wandering off the beaten track.

    But bringing Xmas into set my thoughts going about religion.
    That led to the spirit world and Siver Birch and finally the movie and book about the afterlife.

    My mind tends to shoot off on different branches of the topic.
    I like to see everything as a whole.


    At times, though, I find a clear, single focus helps pin matters down. Holistic can be good, but isn't for every situation....

    I do agree,Mac.
    :urwelcome:
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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  feather on Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:06 am

    Christmas and Easter actually had their beginnings with the Earth based Spiritualism ...pre Christian....celebrating and ritualizing the changing of the seasons linking the natural world and the changes of nature to fertility and prosperity. Christianity only added a name change and and a tweaking of the meaning ...hey presto....an effortless conversion of pagan peoples to Christianity.

    But the pagan meaning of the first beginnings of these celebrations is still relevant because we still owe our survival to the turning of the seasons and our future also depends on the health and productivity of the natural world.

    Why not celebrate 'Christmas' /Yule with abundance. Even considering the Christian version of the story.....surely a good way to celebrate it is to give with abundance.

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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  mac on Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:05 am

    [quote="feather"]

    Christmas and Easter actually had their beginnings with the Earth based Spiritualism earth based? As opposed to what other base? But I get what you mean. I often speak about Modern Spiritualism (post 1884) and you probably mean the Spiritualism evident in various forms pre 1884... ...pre Christian....celebrating and ritualizing the changing of the seasons linking the natural world and the changes of nature to fertility and prosperity. Yes I can go with that albeit I'm not a fan of ritualisation.

    Christianity only added a name change and and a tweaking of the meaning I say that's a massive over-simplification of the situation - tweaking? hardly tweaking.... ...hey presto....an effortless conversion of pagan peoples to Christianity. effortless? A bloody history doesn't reflect that notion.....

    But the pagan meaning of the first beginnings of these celebrations is still relevant because we still owe our survival to the turning of the seasons and our future also depends on the health and productivity of the natural world.
    True, albeit personally I don't see the Pagan interpretation/celebration is now of any value....

    Why not celebrate 'Christmas' /Yule with abundance.
    Why? For the modern western world there is (compared with past times) abundance throughout the year. What would you like to be in abundance at Christmas that there isn't for the rest of the year?

    Even considering the Christian version of the story
    As this is a thread about Spiritualism (read the original) then a Christian approach is anathema to many of us Spiritualists.......

    ....surely a good way to celebrate it is to give with abundance.
    Why not give with abundance at all times and we'd celebrate the words of teacher/healer Jesus and spread the message of Spiritualism continually - not just transiently on an arbitrary date....?
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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  feather on Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:50 am

    I was just providing the 'spiritual' link that I could see as opposed to the 'religious' meaning ...in answer to 'What does Spiritualism know about Christmas?'

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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  mac on Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:42 am

    feather wrote:I was just providing the 'spiritual' link that I could see as opposed to the 'religious' meaning ...in answer to 'What does Spiritualism know about Christmas?'
    Thing is, though, that it didn't answer what the question had (rhetorically) asked.

    And 'spiritual' isn't Spiritualism....
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    Re: What does Spiritualism know about Christmas, eh?

    Post  CW on Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:33 pm

    "Why lie when the truth will do?" "Why lie when you'll need a clean up crew later on down the road to repair the damages the lie has made?"

    WHY THE LIE? I believe in Jesus Christ, weather born December 25th or not it doesn't matter to me, nor did I teach it to matter to my children. I did not tell them the Santa lie, the born in December lie, the buying gifts at Christmas lie and so on..... They seem to be much happier people as a result of the truth of knowing that we do have physic ability, there are non-physical energy forces around us and that if they ever encounter it as I have it is okay to talk about it with me. By the way; both my children have experienced and are enlightened to spiritual existence.

    I must be honest with you mac "truth is still being revealed to me therefore I can not give what I don't have." I also teach them that some truths are basic and some are formed as we grow throughout life. Since a small child I was denied answers, acknowledgment, and was even forbidden to speak of spirits. Even though I could see, hear, smell and sometimes even touch them and they could touch me. Today I'm some what better with my fear of being alone especially in the dark. It was not until I was in my forties that I encountered kindreds such as Violet. afterwards, I found relief, understanding, enlightenment and even growth. I believe all is spiritual, be it your birthday, Jesus birthday, ground hog day, St. Patrick's day, or my personal favorite "EVERYDAY!"

    The lie stops with me!

    Love to all...

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