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    Angels at death?

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    Violet
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    Angels at death?

    Post  Violet on Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:28 pm

    First topic message reminder :

    Do angels draw close when we cross over, on this side just before, are they with us duruing death and there to greet us after, is there an angel who is the 'angel of death'who welcomes us to the otherside?



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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  SpiritVoices on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:24 pm

    Violet wrote:Imo there is nothing physical that travels with us to the spirit world when our physical body dies how can it? The brain remains in the body to decay this proves imo that memories, personality and such are not physical and are not stored in the physical otherwise they would be lost at death, we do not breathe in spirit, we do not even speak (as we know it now,) how can we, we have no tongue, no vocal chords. We are spiritual energy and I believe it is this energy that stores such things in the physical, it's what sets us all apart otherwise all us humans would be like robots, it is this essence, this energy, this spirit which holds memories, emotions, love.

    Think some more, about Alzheimer cases (just for example) often their memories are seemingly lost because of their condition, they forget who family members are, so how do they come through in readings after they pass with their memories still in tact, if such things were stored in the brain and the brain went to spiritworld too they would be the same, no memory still with alzheimers. It is not the body that is healed when we cross, for there is no body to heal, our spirit self free from the bonds of flesh and illness and pain imo is simply free.

    i'll shut up now

    Amen,Violet.
    You possibly could be right,it makes sense what you say.
    I know definately there was mention of no stomach for we have no need to eat.
    The rest I'm not sure of.
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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  Violet on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:25 pm

    Imo we'd have no lungs we would not need to breath we would need no oxygen, there would be no blood no organs to drive. We may hold onto the memory of such things but it wouldn't be physical.



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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  mac on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:30 pm

    Joanie wrote:
    mac wrote:
    Joanie wrote:I would be very interested,Peter if you could find out.
    I read awhile ago,now not sure if it was one of the SB's books that in the etheric body,we are formed like the physical body but minus the organs like the stomach,heart etc all the bits that we needed on earth to keep the physical body nourished and to breathe.
    Brain,I am not sure of.

    As the brain controls all the physical functions then it might be expected that if they're not present, cos they're not needed, a controlling mechanism wouldn't be needed for 'em.....

    Yuh kinda get the impression that in the etheric we're just hollow vessels!

    Everything on the outside and nowt in the inside.
    Now don't quote me,but I am sure the book said we still had lungs to breathe.
    I may be wrong but there was mention of air to breathe.

    I believe I've read that too but it's decades since I had my SB books and lent them out, never to be returned. So I can't check! If we still breathe in the etheric it then begs the question what do we breathe? And dependent on that answer is what the action of our lungs would be..... And dependent on that answer would be whether we have blood circulation et al.

    Unless someone is able to communicate with a discarnate who has relevant knowledge, and understands how to communicate that knowledge, we'll not make any progress I fancy.

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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  mac on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:34 pm

    Joanie wrote:
    mac wrote:
    Joanie wrote:I would be very interested,Peter if you could find out.
    I read awhile ago,now not sure if it was one of the SB's books that in the etheric body,we are formed like the physical body but minus the organs like the stomach,heart etc all the bits that we needed on earth to keep the physical body nourished and to breathe.
    Brain,I am not sure of.

    As the brain controls all the physical functions then it might be expected that if they're not present, cos they're not needed, a controlling mechanism wouldn't be needed for 'em.....

    Yuh kinda get the impression that in the etheric we're just hollow vessels!

    Everything on the outside and nowt in the inside.
    Now don't quote me,but I am sure the book said we still had lungs to breathe.
    I may be wrong but there was mention of air to breathe.

    "Everything on the outside and nowt in the inside." There is also the situation of eyes - they're neither totally inside nor totally outside. Are eyes used at all let alone in a similar way to how we use them now? If eyes aren't needed because we discern in different ways, are they then missing from the etheric counterpart, along with all other organs that are no longer needed?
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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  Violet on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:43 pm

    Imo because we no longer physically 'see' there would be no need for eyes however I believe spirits can appear to us looking as physical as you and me complete with eyes and all.



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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  SpiritVoices on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:44 pm

    Now that was something that was never mentioned,Mac.
    But remember the description of angels?
    How are they shown in pictures?
    Have you noticed they are shown as having blue eyes.
    Why?


    Last edited by Joanie on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  mac on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:44 pm

    Violet wrote:Imo there is nothing physical that travels with us to the spirit world when our physical body dies how can it? The brain remains in the body to decay this proves imo that memories, personality and such are not physical and are not stored in the physical otherwise they would be lost at death, we do not breathe in spirit, we do not even speak (as we know it now,) how can we, we have no tongue, no vocal chords. We are spiritual energy and I believe it is this energy that stores such things in the physical, it's what sets us all apart otherwise all us humans would be like robots, it is this essence, this energy, this spirit which holds memories, emotions, love.

    Think some more, about Alzheimer cases (just for example) often their memories are seemingly lost because of their condition, they forget who family members are, so how do they come through in readings after they pass with their memories still in tact, if such things were stored in the brain and the brain went to spiritworld too they would be the same, no memory still with alzheimers. It is not the body that is healed when we cross, for there is no body to heal, our spirit self free from the bonds of flesh and illness and pain imo is simply free.

    i'll shut up now

    I think we can readily agree that none of our physical components "....travels with us to the spirit world when our physical body dies...." But equally it doesn't mean that there won't be etheric counterparts where/if they are needed for the new life we'll need.

    What we experience as memories will not pass over in the same medium that they're stored currently - that's plain because memories are associated with the physical memory cells in brain regions. And we know that because brain injury can lead to their loss.

    So, equally plainly, if we retain a recall of those events that make up human memory, those events will have to be recorded in some other fashion which isn't impacted by the death of our physical systems.

    It's that issue which is hard to fathom.....

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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  mac on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:47 pm

    Joanie wrote:Now that was something that was never mentioned,Mac.
    But remember the description of angels?
    How are they shown in pictures?
    Have you noticed they are shown as having blue eyes.
    Why?

    You'd have to put that question to the artists who portrayed them that way, Joanie... Maybe, though, it's certain societies' idealised view of perfect beings? blue eyes, golden hair....
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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  SpiritVoices on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:50 pm

    Conciousness? Isn't there something mentioned about our conciousness and the brain?
    Does our consciousness go with us?

    Are our memories stored there?
    Ooh,this is all getting beyond me now.
    I give up.

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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  mac on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:55 pm

    Violet wrote:Imo because we no longer physically 'see' there would be no need for eyes however I believe spirits can appear to us looking as physical as you and me complete with eyes and all.

    Yes we know that we can no longer physically see but how do we know that eyes are not used?

    Yes discarnates can appear to us in the way we knew them in the physical but that doesn't mean that they don't also appear to one another in much the same fashion....

    If we don't have vision, then how is light perceived in the etheric - and why would there be light at all if vision isn't used?

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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  mac on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:57 pm

    Joanie wrote:Conciousness? Isn't there something mentioned about our conciousness and the brain?
    Does our consciousness go with us?

    Are our memories stored there?
    Ooh,this is all getting beyond me now.
    I give up.

    Easier to stick to the simpler issues we've been considering - consciousness is an altogether different one.
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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  SpiritVoices on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:57 pm

    mac wrote:
    Joanie wrote:Now that was something that was never mentioned,Mac.
    But remember the description of angels?
    How are they shown in pictures?
    Have you noticed they are shown as having blue eyes.
    Why?

    You'd have to put that question to the artists who portrayed them that way, Joanie... Maybe, though, it's certain societies' idealised view of perfect beings? blue eyes, golden hair....
    Possibly correct,Mac.
    One exception,I used to have a screen saver years ago with the angel painted with black hair and blue eyes.
    Also white gown for purity.
    Now are there such beings as angels?
    Back to square one............
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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  SpiritVoices on Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:04 pm

    mac wrote:
    Joanie wrote:Conciousness? Isn't there something mentioned about our conciousness and the brain?
    Does our consciousness go with us?

    Are our memories stored there?
    Ooh,this is all getting beyond me now.
    I give up.

    Easier to stick to the simpler issues we've been considering - consciousness is an altogether different one.
    Ok,we started off with the question of what physical organs do we need in the spirit body?
    The most I can remember was definately lungs.
    So fresh air in spirit I would imagine,so also an etheric pair of eyes.
    Plus memories must be stored somewhere in the spirit body.
    Waiting for Peter to find out...........

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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  mac on Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:29 pm

    Joanie wrote:
    mac wrote:
    Joanie wrote:Conciousness? Isn't there something mentioned about our conciousness and the brain?
    Does our consciousness go with us?

    Are our memories stored there?
    Ooh,this is all getting beyond me now.
    I give up.

    Easier to stick to the simpler issues we've been considering - consciousness is an altogether different one.
    Ok,we started off with the question of what physical organs do we need in the spirit body?
    The most I can remember was definately lungs.
    So fresh air in spirit I would imagine,so also an etheric pair of eyes.
    Plus memories must be stored somewhere in the spirit body.
    Waiting for Peter to find out...........

    I've also read another account about breathing in 'Soul Trek' by Julie Gale. I'd have to hunt out the piece, though, and I've other things occupying my time right now.

    I don't recall reading anything about memory. I suspect there'll be nothing definitive.

    A challenge for someone to find out, perhaps, from their personal guide, tutor, guru etc?
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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  SpiritVoices on Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:23 am

    When you have the time,Mac. No worries.

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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  mac on Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:51 am

    Joanie wrote:When you have the time,Mac. No worries.

    I'll see what I can do later today....
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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  SpiritVoices on Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:54 am

    mac wrote:
    Joanie wrote:When you have the time,Mac. No worries.

    I'll see what I can do later today....
    Cheers Mac!

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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  mac on Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:56 pm

    Joanie wrote:
    mac wrote:
    Joanie wrote:When you have the time,Mac. No worries.

    I'll see what I can do later today....
    Cheers Mac!

    I had a good look through (not good enough) but I couldn't spot the reference I was looking for.

    I'm taking the book with me so when I'm at a loose end I'll take another look and see if I can come back with a quotation - just to complete what I've already started....
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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  SpiritVoices on Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:33 pm

    That is good of you,Mac. Plenty of time,not to worry.
    It is not urgent,do you hear me?
    Have a good trip,me old mate.
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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  Violet on Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:48 pm

    mac wrote:
    Violet wrote:Imo because we no longer physically 'see' there would be no need for eyes however I believe spirits can appear to us looking as physical as you and me complete with eyes and all.

    Yes we know that we can no longer physically see but how do we know that eyes are not used?

    Hi Mac
    What eyes would be used? etheric ones? Many mediums can see spirits without using their eyes I believe spirits have the same ability, imo there is no need for any eyes.

    Yes discarnates can appear to us in the way we knew them in the physical but that doesn't mean that they don't also appear to one another in much the same fashion....
    That is probably exactly how they do appear to each other, especially in the early days

    If we don't have vision, then how is light perceived in the etheric - and why would there be light at all if vision isn't used?
    imo light for us here is totally different to light in the etheric, how does a blind medium see spirits, how does a blindfolded medium see spirits, how do we see spirits and light in meditation, how do we see people who are not physically there and light in dreams, we aren't using our vision in such circumstances but we still 'see' very clearly.



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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  PPrncpl7 on Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:22 pm

    Violet wrote:
    mac wrote:
    Violet wrote:Imo because we no longer physically 'see' there would be no need for eyes however I believe spirits can appear to us looking as physical as you and me complete with eyes and all.

    Yes we know that we can no longer physically see but how do we know that eyes are not used?

    Hi Mac
    What eyes would be used? etheric ones? Many mediums can see spirits without using their eyes I believe spirits have the same ability, imo there is no need for any eyes.

    Yes discarnates can appear to us in the way we knew them in the physical but that doesn't mean that they don't also appear to one another in much the same fashion....
    That is probably exactly how they do appear to each other, especially in the early days

    If we don't have vision, then how is light perceived in the etheric - and why would there be light at all if vision isn't used?
    imo light for us here is totally different to light in the etheric, how does a blind medium see spirits, how does a blindfolded medium see spirits, how do we see spirits and light in meditation, how do we see people who are not physically there and light in dreams, we aren't using our vision in such circumstances but we still 'see' very clearly.
    OTT--|OFF topic
    all nonsense!!!
    Peter
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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  Violet on Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:30 pm

    OTT--|OFF topic
    all nonsense!!!
    Peter

    Hi Peter, what's nonsense? That I don't believe spirits have organs, hearts eyes and lungs and such?



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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  mac on Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:32 am

    It would be far more helpful, when detailed interchanges are happening, to refer to the various issues and explain in detail where they are flawed - assuming you have meaningful explanations? - rather than dismissing them with a sweeping "nonsense" declaration.

    I've seen lots of nonsense written in many forums on many websites over many years. This discussion and the points being considered do not fall into such a category.

    Off topic maybe but the original topic had already been well worked.

    Over the top with serious discussions? really?
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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  Violet on Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:27 pm

    Mac did you want to continue this diiscussion?



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    Re: Angels at death?

    Post  mac on Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:35 am

    Violet wrote:Mac did you want to continue this diiscussion?

    Yes, Violet, I'll engage with anyone who will properly discuss/debate the points raised......

    There were some very interesting points being explored until the comments above were posted. I couldn't understand why they were said in the first place by an individual who simply walked away from his dismissive remarks.

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