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    Violet
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    Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Violet on Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:16 am

    First topic message reminder :

    I went to a Christian Spiritualist church once, I felt very uncomfortable, it didn't feel right somehow and far too 'religious' if that makes sense. Anyone else been to one and what were your feelings?



    Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly.

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:52 pm

    QuietCypher wrote:From my observations, there is no such thing as Christian spiritualism: they are two entirely different things. If you want the real thing, try looking into Gnosticism. :)
      How can they be two entirely different things when you've mentioned only one thing, that one thing being Christian Spiritualism about which you then claim there's no such thing - go figure!  I do notice you've written those two words differently from how I've written them (it's subtle, you'll need to look closely) so maybe you don't know what Spiritualism (the religion and philosophy) actually is?  Maybe you'd like to learn?

    And why is Gnosticism the real thing?  The real what thing?  You need to be more observant, more logical and more knowledgeable about a subject before you try to tell others into what you think they try looking.....

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:02 pm

    "Christian Spiritualist church eh? I don't believe it should have the name of any religion. Although, spiritual churches do honour one god. On the other hand. Religions are all involved in spirituality.  Swings both ways."

    And I think that the members of the Christian Spiritualist church are the ones who should determine which name that church should have - don't you?  And by the way, this isn't a thread about spiritual churches, it's one about Spiritualist churches. 

    Don't know what one is?  take a look: Christian Spiritualism
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Azrael on Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:34 pm

    SpiritVoices wrote:
    mac wrote:
    Joanie wrote:Very true,Viking.

    After living in this world for many years,what exactly is Christianity?
    Kindness,concern for other?
    Outline it please.
    Joanie

    It might need a fundamental Christian to adequately define what Christianity is, don't you think? I'd guess it's someone who subscribes to believing what's been taught about the Christ and following the teachings delivered by him.....

    I always think of Christianty Mac as being kind to other people.
    To be a Christian is to show good will, not how many times we attend church.

    Joanie

    It is FAITH based! You either buy into it or you do not. Christianity has had thousands of years to perfect this illusion. It has lied, cheated and even killed to protect it. While I do not subscribe to it personally, fundamentalism especially of the religious kind is one of the most dangerous things on the face of the planet!
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  SpiritVoices on Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:40 pm

    I used to be quite a religious person once.   Used to read the bible regularly until I found too many contradictions in it....
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Assumpta on Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:54 pm

    I like to think that I'm a Christian person.  I also think that you don't have to attend church on a regular basis to be a good Christian.  A friend of mine who happens to be a priest once said to me that ' a lot of people go to church, very few are true Christians' and to be honest I think he's right.
    Each one of us lives our lives in our own fashion and I really don't think that you have to feel that just because you believe in something you must always defend that belief.

     :bfs:
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  SpiritVoices on Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:59 pm

    Hi Assumpta!  :astar: 

    I often wonder why we need churches.     Surely if we are deeply religious,we need no praying...I haven't attended a church for years,but that doesn't mean we don't believe in God....

    I feel there is a Being there who listens to our prayers and helps us when he can....not the first time I have prayed to God for help and it won't be the last..... :angel:
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Azrael on Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:23 am

    SpiritVoices wrote:Hi Assumpta!  :astar: 

    I often wonder why we need churches.     Surely if we are deeply religious,we need no praying...I haven't attended a church for years,but that doesn't mean we don't believe in God....

    I feel there is a Being there who listens to our prayers and helps us when he can....not the first time I have prayed to God for help and it won't be the last..... :angel:

    My biggest miff with the churches in the US is that they are always asking for money.....I still have not figured out why they give you their address? I mean really, send your money to the lord and they give you their address! WTH! If a God could do all things then why do they need money? They should just be able to ask this God for something and BAM there it is! The church in the bible is not a building its the sheeples that are the church. I have found that any kind of praying is useless energy because it never happens. Have you ever noticed that whenever something good happens its always Gods hand or intervention that gets the credit. But let something bad happen and guess what? The old man made devil gets the credit. Sorry if this sounds cruel but any religion is nothing more than an excuse for having to die....you basically spend your entire life apologizing for living.
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  SpiritVoices on Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:23 pm

    In other words,are we paying God for his help?
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Azrael on Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:46 pm

    SpiritVoices wrote:In other words,are we paying God for his help?

    I don't guess payment is required. Its not so much a God asking for money as it is those who follow and preach a God. What you are paying for is the nice churches, Cadillacs and so forth...I doubt smaller churches can afford to lavish these things on a Pastor, it's the Mega-Churches that can. I guess we all have to make a living some how and I guess conning the sheeples into thinking they are helping a God must work. Not knocking the scheme of it. What I am knocking is the way they go about it.
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  SpiritVoices on Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:59 pm

    Azrael wrote:
    SpiritVoices wrote:In other words,are we paying God for his help?

    I don't guess payment is required. Its not so much a God asking for money as it is those who follow and preach a God. What you are paying for is the nice churches, Cadillacs and so forth...I doubt smaller churches can afford to lavish these things on a Pastor, it's the Mega-Churches that can. I guess we all have to make a living some how and I guess conning the sheeples into thinking they are helping a God must work. Not knocking the scheme of it. What I am knocking is the way they go about it.
    I understand that.    I know exactly what you mean.    I remember the days when the old vicar lived in old country,worn out house.   As hard up as anyone else..
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Azrael on Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:53 pm

    SpiritVoices wrote:
    Azrael wrote:
    SpiritVoices wrote:In other words,are we paying God for his help?

    I don't guess payment is required. Its not so much a God asking for money as it is those who follow and preach a God. What you are paying for is the nice churches, Cadillacs and so forth...I doubt smaller churches can afford to lavish these things on a Pastor, it's the Mega-Churches that can. I guess we all have to make a living some how and I guess conning the sheeples into thinking they are helping a God must work. Not knocking the scheme of it. What I am knocking is the way they go about it.
    I understand that.    I know exactly what you mean.    I remember the days when the old vicar lived in old country,worn out house.   As hard up as anyone else..

    Well to be honest I am usually pretty harsh on this subject. But I have realized over the years that clumping all christians into the same mold is wrong. I mean one bad apple does not ruin the whole bushel. Given my go after the jugular approach on this what I posted was actually mild. I was raised a christian most of my life but like many I saw through the veil of smoke and BS while I totally disagree with it I let it go.


    Last edited by Azrael on Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Correct a sentence. Left out a word.)
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  SpiritVoices on Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:41 am

    Well,as I said,I am very much like you.    When I see children murdered in cold blood,I think to myself....'Where are you,God?'
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Assumpta on Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:05 pm

    Like you Joan those thoughts about small children or indeed anyone who is murdered is the same.  I do sometime wonder if before we come back on this earth do we have the option of determining how we die?  What do you think about it?

     :bfs:
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Azrael on Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:55 pm

    Assumpta wrote:Like you Joan those thoughts about small children or indeed anyone who is murdered is the same.  I do sometime wonder if before we come back on this earth do we have the option of determining how we die?  What do you think about it?

     :bfs:

    If those options are given where are they given at? Our deaths are predetermined at a predetermined time and place it would stand to reason if we knew the time and  place we would spend all our lives trying to change our fate.

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:53 pm

    Azrael wrote:
    Assumpta wrote:Like you Joan those thoughts about small children or indeed anyone who is murdered is the same.  I do sometime wonder if before we come back on this earth do we have the option of determining how we die?  What do you think about it?

     :bfs:

    If those options are given where are they given at? Our deaths are predetermined at a predetermined time and place it would stand to reason if we knew the time and  place we would spend all our lives trying to change our fate.
    Alternatively if the time and place of our deaths are predetermined and if we consciously KNEW the time and place it would mean we'd know far more than we do now and that might also mean we would understood why

    If we did understand why, we might then be motivated to do more with our lives before the time arrived.  That alternative makes just as much sense as our trying to avoid something we knew was unavoidable.
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  SpiritVoices on Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:13 pm

    Assumpta wrote:Like you Joan those thoughts about small children or indeed anyone who is murdered is the same.  I do sometime wonder if before we come back on this earth do we have the option of determining how we die?  What do you think about it?

     :bfs:
    Not too sure about that question,Maureen....If we had the choice,wouldn't we pick a death that was easy and peaceful?    
    Of course that depends on how brave a soul we would be in spirit.
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Azrael on Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:11 pm

    mac wrote:
    Azrael wrote:
    Assumpta wrote:Like you Joan those thoughts about small children or indeed anyone who is murdered is the same.  I do sometime wonder if before we come back on this earth do we have the option of determining how we die?  What do you think about it?

     :bfs:

    If those options are given where are they given at? Our deaths are predetermined at a predetermined time and place it would stand to reason if we knew the time and  place we would spend all our lives trying to change our fate.
    Alternatively if the time and place of our deaths are predetermined and if we consciously KNEW the time and place it would mean we'd know far more than we do now and that might also mean we would understood why

    If we did understand why, we might then be motivated to do more with our lives before the time arrived.  That alternative makes just as much sense as our trying to avoid something we knew was unavoidable.

    Subjective at best. A lot of the knowing would depend on the persons level of fear in facing their death at a predetermined time and place. At this point its all speculation.


    That alternative makes just as much sense as our trying to avoid something we knew was unavoidable.

    How many people do you know that would not try to change the outcome of a bad situation if they knew it was coming?
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  SpiritVoices on Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:35 pm

    'if they knew it was coming'
    We pick our deaths before we are born but the human mind doesn't know that.   All memories of picking our future lives are gone at the moment of birth.
    How we die is buried within our souls.....so no knowledge of human death once our physical lives begin.
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Azrael on Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:48 pm

    SpiritVoices wrote:'if they knew it was coming'
    We pick our deaths before we are born but the human mind doesn't know that.   All memories of picking our future lives are gone at the moment of birth.
    How we die is buried within our souls.....so no knowledge of human death once our physical lives begin.


    We pick our deaths before we are born but the human mind doesn't know that. 

    I have to ask, how do we do that?


    How we die is buried within our souls.....so no knowledge of human death once our physical lives begin.

    A newborn has no idea about death. Death like other things such as our religion, what we like and do not like are selected over time through our trials and errors of living. The word "soul" to me is another religious concoction that presents itself with the words "eternal life." This "Jesus" in the Bible says "why worry about your physical body when I can take your soul".......apparently even then they believed in a so called "soul."  All of this is again subjective and the only thing that presents itself has real is "death" itself.....

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:14 pm

    Azrael wrote:
    mac wrote:
    Azrael wrote:
    Assumpta wrote:Like you Joan those thoughts about small children or indeed anyone who is murdered is the same.  I do sometime wonder if before we come back on this earth do we have the option of determining how we die?  What do you think about it?

     :bfs:

    If those options are given where are they given at? Our deaths are predetermined at a predetermined time and place it would stand to reason if we knew the time and  place we would spend all our lives trying to change our fate.
    Alternatively if the time and place of our deaths are predetermined and if we consciously KNEW the time and place it would mean we'd know far more than we do now and that might also mean we would understood why

    If we did understand why, we might then be motivated to do more with our lives before the time arrived.  That alternative makes just as much sense as our trying to avoid something we knew was unavoidable.

    Subjective at best. A lot of the knowing would depend on the persons level of fear in facing their death at a predetermined time and place. At this point its all speculation.


    That alternative makes just as much sense as our trying to avoid something we knew was unavoidable.

    How many people do you know that would not try to change the outcome of a bad situation if they knew it was coming?
    On the last point, if we knew more than we know now, how do we know what course of action we'd take?

     And if we KNEW, not just believed, that our departure point was invariable, surely we'd also have a chance of KNOWING that we couldn't, therefore, change any aspect of it?  Naturally it's conjecture - this whole discussion is not based on facts but on ideas and views.

    By definition, pre-determination must mean invariable else it would not be pre-determined.  Anyone who understood why something was pre-determined (I contend) might also have a greater depth of understanding than those who don't.  Hence the outlook of such an individual would (I suggest) not necessarily follow the course of action you've indicated that you think they would.

    On the earlier point it wasn't I who was claiming that life's end point is pre-determined - I was only following on from points already made but from a different perspective.  As you suggest above, of course, my view is subjective and my view isn't that our lives are pre-determined in the way hypothesised.

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:31 pm

    I said "Alternatively if the time and place of our deaths are predetermined and if we consciously KNEW the time and place it would mean we'd know far more than we do now and that might also mean we would understood why." 

    If we did understand why, we might then be motivated to do more with our lives before the time arrived.  That alternative makes just as much sense as our trying to avoid something we knew was unavoidable."



    you said "Subjective at best. A lot of the knowing would depend on the persons level of fear in facing their death at a predetermined time and place. At this point its all speculation."


    In response I ask you to look at what I wrote more closely...  I underlined 'if' and put KNEW in capitals to draw attention to the importance of those words in the clause, if we knew.  I was inferring that (generally) we don't consciously know any such things. 



    But knowing something isn't conditional ".....on the persons level of fear in facing their death at a predetermined time and place." What is known is known but what's not certain is one's reaction to it. 



    That's not a subjective issue.

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:32 pm

    Jesus I've just realised that this thread started off looking at Christian Spiritualism!  We're now way off-topic....
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Azrael on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:37 pm

    mac wrote:Jesus I've just realised that this thread started off looking at Christian Spiritualism!  We're now way off-topic....

    Yeah you are right we are. Anyone else interested in starting a new thread?
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Azrael on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:19 pm

    mac wrote:I said "Alternatively if the time and place of our deaths are predetermined and if we consciously KNEW the time and place it would mean we'd know far more than we do now and that might also mean we would understood why." 

    If we did understand why, we might then be motivated to do more with our lives before the time arrived.  That alternative makes just as much sense as our trying to avoid something we knew was unavoidable."



    you said "Subjective at best. A lot of the knowing would depend on the persons level of fear in facing their death at a predetermined time and place. At this point its all speculation."


    In response I ask you to look at what I wrote more closely...  I underlined 'if' and put KNEW in capitals to draw attention to the importance of those words in the clause, if we knew.  I was inferring that (generally) we don't consciously know any such things. 



    But knowing something isn't conditional ".....on the persons level of fear in facing their death at a predetermined time and place." What is known is known but what's not certain is one's reaction to it. 



    That's not a subjective issue.

    Death is a condition when it happens and is not known until it does. A persons reaction to it is not known until it happens therefore both are subjective instances and are going on what is known at that time and place.  Put it this way for the sake of argument. Death in all it's glory or not happens to everyone human or animal. Conditions such as disease, natural disasters and other factors cause death. Anything we know about death after the cessation of life is subjective and pure speculation. Richard Huntington and Peter Metcalf noted in "Celebrations of Death" "life becomes transparent against the background of death."

    ... any mans death, diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.

    -John Donne, Devotions

    Now new thread anyone?
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  SpiritVoices on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:37 pm

    :grin:  You didn't type ...The End on there.....

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