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    Violet
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    Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Violet on Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:16 am

    First topic message reminder :

    I went to a Christian Spiritualist church once, I felt very uncomfortable, it didn't feel right somehow and far too 'religious' if that makes sense. Anyone else been to one and what were your feelings?



    Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly.

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:10 pm

    "Does it make any difference what words we use--GOD, DIVINE SPIRIT, JESUS?????????????"

    It makes a difference for some of us....
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Native spirit on Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:42 pm

    I agree mac the one snu spiritulist church that i went to the medium had a young boy no older than 7 sat next to herm and she said you should all remember him as he is the next well known medium to come from here,i have never seen or heard from him since, but i didnt like the medium running the place she would tell ppl that they could speak, as soon as one person did she said to the youngster you said that didnt you, the poor lad looked confused,

    Namaste

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:28 pm

    Native spirit wrote:I agree mac the one snu spiritulist church that i went to the medium had a young boy no older than 7 sat next to herm and she said you should all remember him as he is the next well known medium to come from here,i have never seen or heard from him since, but i didnt like the medium running the place she would tell ppl that they could speak, as soon as one person did she said to the youngster you said that didnt you, the poor lad looked confused,

    Namaste

    Are you now speaking about the same church as you mentioned earlier? Was it a public, open gathering?
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Violet on Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:13 pm

    they are only as good - or as bad - as those who run and/or frequent them. It's a sad fact of life that a Spiritualist, just as with any other individual, is primarily a human.



    Very true, I've visied a number of Spiritualist Churches in the past, each one was a different experience.



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    JESUS

    Post  Aura on Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:27 pm

    LOL...cos he's the son of God. just like im the daughter of God. and everyone else are sons and daughters of God. God? the source of concsiousness! Great Spirit! Mother Father God...sure there must be lots more names. still the same source!

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Left Behind on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:31 pm

    Katiecat wrote:I have never been to a Spiritualist church, or a Christian Spiritualist church, but I would if I found one close to me!

    This is something that I really struggle with. My Christian faith and my awakening. I love Jesus, have a great relationship with him. I know he has impacted my life in the past few years when I was going through some rough stuff...and I am very blessed.

    However, I love metaphysical stuff, crystals, tarot cards, etc... And I am gifted in this area as well. So, I deal a lot with "Christian guilt."...as all of this is spoken badly of in the Bible. However, I think that the Bible is contradictory in this area. It says not to visit psychics or to follow the stars...But then Jesus was visited by Magi who followed the North Star to find him...So, thats kind of an oxymoron to me. Who do people think that the Magi were? Also, Christian churches preach that we are suppose to be like Jesus, or strive to be like him... Well how are people suppose to do this unless they learn how by learning how to heal, and other metaphysical stuff?

    I also believe in reincarnation, which I also think is misinterpreted in the Bible.

    So, I suppose a lot of folks consider Christianity and Spiritualism to not mix well. However, sometimes you just have to consider the gray areas of things. What are people like me suppose to do? Totally abandon a faith we have always had, and miss out on everything else? Or try to find a way to blend it all together and see it all under a different light? -which is what I attempt to do.

    I share a number of your views, KC.

    I regard myself as a Christian Spiritualist. I know that many (Hi, Mac! ) regard those terms as antithetical, and to some extent, they are. For example, it would make no sense to contend, as Spiritualists do, that each person is responsible for his own spiritual advancement, while simultaneously contending that "Jesus paid it all": that faith in Jesus forgives all sins and all effects that emanante from them, and that lack of such faith condemns one to eternal punishment.

    However, every Christian doesn't hold such a view.

    Even before I heard of Spiritualism, I was completely confused by the idea that Jesus died as a "substitutionary sacrifice", to pay some "debt" we all owed. To whom is this "debt" owed? To "Satan"? Is he more powerful than God? Why would an all-wise, all-just, all-merciful God condemn someone to an eternity of horrible suffering? No one could possibly do enough evil in a human lifetime to "deserve" this.

    I believe that Jesus did something - something tremendous - for all of us, and that he wants us to live our lives guided by his teaching and example.

    I believe that the Christian religion is extremely Spiritualist. What else can it mean, to accept the Bible as "inspired"? Inspired by who or what, if not spirits?

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Ethereal on Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:49 am

    Left Behind wrote:
    Katiecat wrote:I have never been to a Spiritualist church, or a Christian Spiritualist church, but I would if I found one close to me!

    This is something that I really struggle with. My Christian faith and my awakening. I love Jesus, have a great relationship with him. I know he has impacted my life in the past few years when I was going through some rough stuff...and I am very blessed.

    However, I love metaphysical stuff, crystals, tarot cards, etc... And I am gifted in this area as well. So, I deal a lot with "Christian guilt."...as all of this is spoken badly of in the Bible. However, I think that the Bible is contradictory in this area. It says not to visit psychics or to follow the stars...But then Jesus was visited by Magi who followed the North Star to find him...So, thats kind of an oxymoron to me. Who do people think that the Magi were? Also, Christian churches preach that we are suppose to be like Jesus, or strive to be like him... Well how are people suppose to do this unless they learn how by learning how to heal, and other metaphysical stuff?

    I also believe in reincarnation, which I also think is misinterpreted in the Bible.

    So, I suppose a lot of folks consider Christianity and Spiritualism to not mix well. However, sometimes you just have to consider the gray areas of things. What are people like me suppose to do? Totally abandon a faith we have always had, and miss out on everything else? Or try to find a way to blend it all together and see it all under a different light? -which is what I attempt to do.

    I share a number of your views, KC.

    I regard myself as a Christian Spiritualist. I know that many (Hi, Mac! ) regard those terms as antithetical, and to some extent, they are. For example, it would make no sense to contend, as Spiritualists do, that each person is responsible for his own spiritual advancement, while simultaneously contending that "Jesus paid it all": that faith in Jesus forgives all sins and all effects that emanante from them, and that lack of such faith condemns one to eternal punishment.

    However, every Christian doesn't hold such a view.

    Even before I heard of Spiritualism, I was completely confused by the idea that Jesus died as a "substitutionary sacrifice", to pay some "debt" we all owed. To whom is this "debt" owed? To "Satan"? Is he more powerful than God? Why would an all-wise, all-just, all-merciful God condemn someone to an eternity of horrible suffering? No one could possibly do enough evil in a human lifetime to "deserve" this.

    I believe that Jesus did something - something tremendous - for all of us, and that he wants us to live our lives guided by his teaching and example.

    I believe that the Christian religion is extremely Spiritualist. What else can it mean, to accept the Bible as "inspired"? Inspired by who or what, if not spirits?

    Jim

    Someone asked for a definition of Christian Spiritualism.

    I also call myself a Christian Spiritualist. But long before I chose that designation I was a fan of Edgar Cayce books which I had began reading at the age of 14. It was not until I was in my late thirties that I had the opportunity to join a Christian Spiritualist Church. I found the similiarities between the two to be very close to each other especially among those who were in the church when I first joined it. Even so, there were differences between members. The church was guided by the By-Laws and the Declaration of Principles published by original members, which included 7 of the 9 principles of the NSAC, (National Spiritualist Association of Churches), slightly modified forms of the Lyceum and interpretation of Spiritualism. On the issue of Christ being a savior it was not defined, just accepted if you did not bring it up. Of those members who did espouse it, it ranged from accepting Christ as a great teacher, or a savior through blood or through example. (Which is part of the reason I believed people tried to change it, because Christian was not defined. That is an opinion though.) The last one is the one I chose to believe in, that Christ died showing us not to be afraid of death. If we lived a spiritual life, followed the Golden Rule, (As ye would others do unto you, so do ye unto them) and loved God, and your neighbor as well as yourself then you were/are Christian. That each person I meet is a mirror image of myself walking a different path and to love them is to love myself, knowing forgiveness to them and myself leads to that love. By doing so death has no hold over you (I believe in Reincarnation) and fear is the greatest threat to the soul.(Stifling learning, experiance and interaction with others) That Hell is not a place but an attitude and heaven is the greatest truth in knowing ourselves and being free as the result.
    While these views were not the views of all others in the church, they were however accepted by those who were there when I joined. Some views I had before I joined and some I acquired before I left. But many did hold similar views and were accepting (not just tolerant) of other views and willing to listen to other views, even if not in agreement. To see what was similar so that communication was possible to understand and love others. This is Christian Spiritualism as I came to know it and eventually try to practice it. But as said before most churches are guided by those who practice their belief system. Quite often that is guided by their past, both current lifetime and past lifetimes, environment, genetic influences, and astrological sojourns.
    This by no means is an advocation of the Christian Spiritualist belief system, only my view and how I came to accept it.

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  SpiritVoices on Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:42 am

    Interesting topic,must have missed this somewhere along the way....

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:48 am

    This is an old topic and I thought we'd just about talked it out.

    Anyone who's looked even cursorily at 'traditional' Modern Spiritualism and Christian Spiritualism will have a pretty clear idea of the main differences. These - if memory serves me - have been aired in this thread and elsewhere.

    We Spiritualists have no difficulty in seeing the Nazarene, Jesus, as what he was. What is hard to accept -
    and totally unnecessary for a Spiritualist - is the mainstream church's teachings and the need for belief about issues which are poorly dealt with. I'd wager that 'simple Spiritualists' (a category I put myself firmly in) see the Bible as too obscure to have much significance in everyday life. That's the book itself and the way it's used in the Christian faiths that I'm talking about. Spiritualism has no equivalent to the Bible and doesn't need one.

    Another significant difference is that where you've used a long paragraph to explain what Christian Spiritualism is for you, I'd contend that the few short lines of explanation I use routinely explain what Modern Spiritualism is about for Spiritualists generally.

    There's not enough wriggle-room in those sentences to have a personal version of (traditional) Spiritualism. Beyond those fundamentals individuals may progress to levels or depths of understanding which are personal but that's a different issue, just as it would be for any other discipline.

    It's probably not a significant issue in this topic but there are differences between the US version of Spiritualism and that found in the UK. It's a point I often make when 'speaking' to Americans as it's
    caused confusion in the past for me and took a time to reconcile personally.







    Ethereal wrote:
    Left Behind wrote:
    Katiecat wrote:I have never been to a Spiritualist church, or a Christian Spiritualist church, but I would if I found one close to me!

    This is something that I really struggle with. My Christian faith and my awakening. I love Jesus, have a great relationship with him. I know he has impacted my life in the past few years when I was going through some rough stuff...and I am very blessed.

    However, I love metaphysical stuff, crystals, tarot cards, etc... And I am gifted in this area as well. So, I deal a lot with "Christian guilt."...as all of this is spoken badly of in the Bible. However, I think that the Bible is contradictory in this area. It says not to visit psychics or to follow the stars...But then Jesus was visited by Magi who followed the North Star to find him...So, thats kind of an oxymoron to me. Who do people think that the Magi were? Also, Christian churches preach that we are suppose to be like Jesus, or strive to be like him... Well how are people suppose to do this unless they learn how by learning how to heal, and other metaphysical stuff?

    I also believe in reincarnation, which I also think is misinterpreted in the Bible.

    So, I suppose a lot of folks consider Christianity and Spiritualism to not mix well. However, sometimes you just have to consider the gray areas of things. What are people like me suppose to do? Totally abandon a faith we have always had, and miss out on everything else? Or try to find a way to blend it all together and see it all under a different light? -which is what I attempt to do.

    I share a number of your views, KC.

    I regard myself as a Christian Spiritualist. I know that many (Hi, Mac! ) regard those terms as antithetical, and to some extent, they are. For example, it would make no sense to contend, as Spiritualists do, that each person is responsible for his own spiritual advancement, while simultaneously contending that "Jesus paid it all": that faith in Jesus forgives all sins and all effects that emanante from them, and that lack of such faith condemns one to eternal punishment.

    However, every Christian doesn't hold such a view.

    Even before I heard of Spiritualism, I was completely confused by the idea that Jesus died as a "substitutionary sacrifice", to pay some "debt" we all owed. To whom is this "debt" owed? To "Satan"? Is he more powerful than God? Why would an all-wise, all-just, all-merciful God condemn someone to an eternity of horrible suffering? No one could possibly do enough evil in a human lifetime to "deserve" this.

    I believe that Jesus did something - something tremendous - for all of us, and that he wants us to live our lives guided by his teaching and example.

    I believe that the Christian religion is extremely Spiritualist. What else can it mean, to accept the Bible as "inspired"? Inspired by who or what, if not spirits?

    Jim

    Someone asked for a definition of Christian Spiritualism.

    I also call myself a Christian Spiritualist. But long before I chose that designation I was a fan of Edgar Cayce books which I had began reading at the age of 14. It was not until I was in my late thirties that I had the opportunity to join a Christian Spiritualist Church. I found the similiarities between the two to be very close to each other especially among those who were in the church when I first joined it. Even so, there were differences between members. The church was guided by the By-Laws and the Declaration of Principles published by original members, which included 7 of the 9 principles of the NSAC, (National Spiritualist Association of Churches), slightly modified forms of the Lyceum and interpretation of Spiritualism. On the issue of Christ being a savior it was not defined, just accepted if you did not bring it up. Of those members who did espouse it, it ranged from accepting Christ as a great teacher, or a savior through blood or through example. (Which is part of the reason I believed people tried to change it, because Christian was not defined. That is an opinion though.) The last one is the one I chose to believe in, that Christ died showing us not to be afraid of death. If we lived a spiritual life, followed the Golden Rule, (As ye would others do unto you, so do ye unto them) and loved God, and your neighbor as well as yourself then you were/are Christian. That each person I meet is a mirror image of myself walking a different path and to love them is to love myself, knowing forgiveness to them and myself leads to that love. By doing so death has no hold over you (I believe in Reincarnation) and fear is the greatest threat to the soul.(Stifling learning, experiance and interaction with others) That Hell is not a place but an attitude and heaven is the greatest truth in knowing ourselves and being free as the result.
    While these views were not the views of all others in the church, they were however accepted by those who were there when I joined. Some views I had before I joined and some I acquired before I left. But many did hold similar views and were accepting (not just tolerant) of other views and willing to listen to other views, even if not in agreement. To see what was similar so that communication was possible to understand and love others. This is Christian Spiritualism as I came to know it and eventually try to practice it. But as said before most churches are guided by those who practice their belief system. Quite often that is guided by their past, both current lifetime and past lifetimes, environment, genetic influences, and astrological sojourns.
    This by no means is an advocation of the Christian Spiritualist belief system, only my view and how I came to accept it.

    Daniel


    Last edited by mac on Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:55 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : formatting issues!)
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Ethereal on Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:01 am

    mac wrote:This is an old topic and I thought we'd just about talked it out.

    Anyone who's looked even cursorily at 'traditional' Modern Spiritualism and Christian Spiritualism will have a pretty clear idea of the main differences. These - if memory serves me - have been aired in this thread and elsewhere.
    The Original question was what I was addressing. Not the question of what is modern spiritualism.

    We Spiritualists have no difficulty in seeing the Nazarene, Jesus, as what he was. What is hard to accept -
    and totally unnecessary for a Spiritualist - is the mainstream church's teachings and the need for belief about issues which are poorly dealt with. I'd wager that 'simple Spiritualists' (a category I put myself firmly in) see the Bible as too obscure to have much significance in everyday life. That's the book itself and the way it's used in the Christian faiths that I'm talking about. Spiritualism has no equivalent to the Bible and doesn't need one.
    I have found the bible very revelent in aspects of my daily life. But one has to experiment with what is said before one could agree with me. I have no problem with you not believing. Do you have a problem with what I believe? If not why bring it up and try to disregard the original question? As for modern spiritualism not having a bible or needing one. Ok, that's fine with me. But the original question involved an individuals struggle with using and integrating the bible into their lives. And that was what I was answering in part.

    Another significant difference is that where you've used a long paragraph to explain what Christian Spiritualism is for you, I'd contend that the few short lines of explanation I use routinely explain what Modern Spiritualism is about for Spiritualists generally.
    I used a long paragraph because I was trying to condense 45 years of practicing my belief system into a very short brief. If you chose to use a very short explanation of your life and modern spiritualism that is fine. My life has not been simple, short or generally routine. But it has been about Christian Spiritualism and practicing it. When you have spirit move things that you would consider impossible in your life, then it is no longer routine or simple, and belief and faith begin to take on a whole new meaning.

    There's not enough wriggle-room in those sentences to have a personal version of (traditional) Spiritualism. Beyond those fundamentals individuals may progress to levels or depths of understanding which are personal but that's a different issue, just as it would be for any other discipline.
    Again the question was not about a personal version of (Traditional) Spiritualism, it was about Christian Spiritualism. And the person was struggling with a personal version of Christian Spiritualism. That is what the individual who gave an answer before me and I was addressing.

    It's probably not a significant issue in this topic but there are differences between the US version of Spiritualism and that found in the UK. It's a point I often make when 'speaking' to Americans as it's
    caused confusion in the past for me and took a time to reconcile personally.
    Actually I am aware that there are differences between Spiritualist churches in the UK and the US. As stated earlier in this forum, there are differences between churches in the SNU and non affiliated churches. There were differences between members of the church that I attended and addressed in my previous post, but there are more similarities than differences. If the answers you gave were too short and simple that others could not understand them, then perhaps sometimes more effort and time is needed to reach out to others.
    Additionally, I do not understand why you did not address the original questioner's query and instead concentrated on trying to disparage my answer. It seems to me if your desire was to help this individual find peace with their struggle in their belief system, you would have told them what modern and traditional Spiritualism is.

    Daniel




    Ethereal wrote:
    Left Behind wrote:
    Katiecat wrote:I have never been to a Spiritualist church, or a Christian Spiritualist church, but I would if I found one close to me!

    This is something that I really struggle with. My Christian faith and my awakening. I love Jesus, have a great relationship with him. I know he has impacted my life in the past few years when I was going through some rough stuff...and I am very blessed.

    However, I love metaphysical stuff, crystals, tarot cards, etc... And I am gifted in this area as well. So, I deal a lot with "Christian guilt."...as all of this is spoken badly of in the Bible. However, I think that the Bible is contradictory in this area. It says not to visit psychics or to follow the stars...But then Jesus was visited by Magi who followed the North Star to find him...So, thats kind of an oxymoron to me. Who do people think that the Magi were? Also, Christian churches preach that we are suppose to be like Jesus, or strive to be like him... Well how are people suppose to do this unless they learn how by learning how to heal, and other metaphysical stuff?

    I also believe in reincarnation, which I also think is misinterpreted in the Bible.

    So, I suppose a lot of folks consider Christianity and Spiritualism to not mix well. However, sometimes you just have to consider the gray areas of things. What are people like me suppose to do? Totally abandon a faith we have always had, and miss out on everything else? Or try to find a way to blend it all together and see it all under a different light? -which is what I attempt to do.

    I share a number of your views, KC.

    I regard myself as a Christian Spiritualist. I know that many (Hi, Mac! ) regard those terms as antithetical, and to some extent, they are. For example, it would make no sense to contend, as Spiritualists do, that each person is responsible for his own spiritual advancement, while simultaneously contending that "Jesus paid it all": that faith in Jesus forgives all sins and all effects that emanante from them, and that lack of such faith condemns one to eternal punishment.

    However, every Christian doesn't hold such a view.

    Even before I heard of Spiritualism, I was completely confused by the idea that Jesus died as a "substitutionary sacrifice", to pay some "debt" we all owed. To whom is this "debt" owed? To "Satan"? Is he more powerful than God? Why would an all-wise, all-just, all-merciful God condemn someone to an eternity of horrible suffering? No one could possibly do enough evil in a human lifetime to "deserve" this.

    I believe that Jesus did something - something tremendous - for all of us, and that he wants us to live our lives guided by his teaching and example.

    I believe that the Christian religion is extremely Spiritualist. What else can it mean, to accept the Bible as "inspired"? Inspired by who or what, if not spirits?

    Jim

    Someone asked for a definition of Christian Spiritualism.

    I also call myself a Christian Spiritualist. But long before I chose that designation I was a fan of Edgar Cayce books which I had began reading at the age of 14. It was not until I was in my late thirties that I had the opportunity to join a Christian Spiritualist Church. I found the similiarities between the two to be very close to each other especially among those who were in the church when I first joined it. Even so, there were differences between members. The church was guided by the By-Laws and the Declaration of Principles published by original members, which included 7 of the 9 principles of the NSAC, (National Spiritualist Association of Churches), slightly modified forms of the Lyceum and interpretation of Spiritualism. On the issue of Christ being a savior it was not defined, just accepted if you did not bring it up. Of those members who did espouse it, it ranged from accepting Christ as a great teacher, or a savior through blood or through example. (Which is part of the reason I believed people tried to change it, because Christian was not defined. That is an opinion though.) The last one is the one I chose to believe in, that Christ died showing us not to be afraid of death. If we lived a spiritual life, followed the Golden Rule, (As ye would others do unto you, so do ye unto them) and loved God, and your neighbor as well as yourself then you were/are Christian. That each person I meet is a mirror image of myself walking a different path and to love them is to love myself, knowing forgiveness to them and myself leads to that love. By doing so death has no hold over you (I believe in Reincarnation) and fear is the greatest threat to the soul.(Stifling learning, experiance and interaction with others) That Hell is not a place but an attitude and heaven is the greatest truth in knowing ourselves and being free as the result.
    While these views were not the views of all others in the church, they were however accepted by those who were there when I joined. Some views I had before I joined and some I acquired before I left. But many did hold similar views and were accepting (not just tolerant) of other views and willing to listen to other views, even if not in agreement. To see what was similar so that communication was possible to understand and love others. This is Christian Spiritualism as I came to know it and eventually try to practice it. But as said before most churches are guided by those who practice their belief system. Quite often that is guided by their past, both current lifetime and past lifetimes, environment, genetic influences, and astrological sojourns.
    This by no means is an advocation of the Christian Spiritualist belief system, only my view and how I came to accept it.

    Daniel

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:02 am

    "If the answers you gave
    were too short and simple that others could not understand them, then
    perhaps sometimes more effort and time is needed to reach out to others."

    Let's do this step-by-step, eh? I haven't told you how you should go about what you do and in turn you don't tell me how I should behave - deal? You decide for yourself how much effort and time you deploy and I can do the same for me - deal?

    "Additionally,
    I do not understand why you did not address the original questioner's
    query and instead concentrated on trying to disparage my answer."
    I guess you've been looking back a fair way to some earlier part of this thread but if you quote the points you're unhappy about I'll take a look-see to judge whether you personally deserve a response from me about something that didn't involve you - deal? Similarly on your accusation of disparagement except I'll definitely respond to any point you make - deal?

    "It
    seems to me if your desire was to help this individual find peace with
    their struggle in their belief system, you would have told them what
    modern and traditional Spiritualism is."
    ditto all the above

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:08 am

    "Anyone
    who's looked even cursorily at 'traditional' Modern Spiritualism and
    Christian Spiritualism will have a pretty clear idea of the main
    differences. These - if memory serves me - have been aired in this
    thread and elsewhere."

    "The Original question was what I was addressing. Not the question of what is modern spiritualism."

    In that case it would have been helpful for you to have copied that original question in for reference but as I've already remarked this is is an old topic and I thought we'd just about talked it out anyway.

    I don't see how defining Christian Spiritualism would be hindered by contrasting or comparing it with traditional Spiritualism.

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:16 am

    "There's not enough wriggle-room
    in those sentences to have a personal version of (traditional)
    Spiritualism. Beyond those fundamentals individuals may progress to
    levels or depths of understanding which are personal but that's a different issue, just as it would be for any other discipline."
    Again
    the question was not about a personal version of (Traditional)
    Spiritualism, it was about Christian Spiritualism. And the person was
    struggling with a personal version of Christian Spiritualism. That is
    what the individual who gave an answer before me and I was addressing."

    You're completely right about the question not being about a personal version of Spiritualism. I made this point as a comparison with what you'd explained about yourself viz "
    On the issue of Christ being a savior it was not defined, just accepted
    if you did not bring it up. Of those members who did espouse it, it
    ranged from accepting Christ as a great teacher, or a savior through
    blood or through example. (Which is part of the reason I believed people
    tried to change it, because Christian was not defined. That is an
    opinion though.)"

    The impression I gained from what you wrote is that there are variations in the definition of Christian spiritualism and my comparison with 'regular' Spiritualism is that there isn't.... It's not an issue which affects me but I judged that it's a useful comparison for anyone wishing to gain a broader perspective.


    Last edited by mac on Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:18 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : formatting again!)

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:25 am

    Another significant difference is that where you've used a long paragraph to explain what Christian Spiritualism is for you,
    I'd contend that the few short lines of explanation I use routinely
    explain what Modern Spiritualism is about for Spiritualists generally.
    "I
    used a long paragraph because I was trying to condense 45 years of
    practicing my belief system into a very short brief. If you chose to
    use a very short explanation of your life and modern spiritualism that
    is fine. My life has not been simple, short or generally routine. But it
    has been about Christian Spiritualism and practicing it. When you have
    spirit move things that you would consider impossible in your life, then
    it is no longer routine or simple, and belief and faith begin to take
    on a whole new meaning."

    That's a fair explanation and one issue you raise was once raised elsewhere, that of practising Spiritualism of whatever flavor.... My response was, and remains, that I don't know what a practising Spiritualist compared with a non-practising Spiritualist is.

    The term 'practising' has no meaning or relevance for me as there's nothing I have to practise.It's my way of being at all times, under all circumstances, nothing to practise.I hope that's another useful comparison?

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:36 am

    That's the book itself and the
    way it's used in the Christian faiths that I'm talking about.
    Spiritualism has no equivalent to the Bible and doesn't need one.

    "I
    have found the bible very revelent in aspects of my daily life. But one
    has to experiment with what is said before one could agree with me. I
    have no problem with you not believing. Do you have a problem with what I
    believe? If not why bring it up and try to disregard the original
    question? As for modern spiritualism not having a bible or needing one.
    Ok, that's fine with me. But the original question involved an
    individuals struggle with using and integrating the bible into their
    lives. And that was what I was answering in part."

    If the Bible is relevant to you then I respect that. Again I made my points as comparisons and I hold no beliefs. It's another interesting comparison (I think) that whereas Modern Spiritualism provides evidence of the simple issues it teaches, adherents of other religions frequently speak about 'belief 'and 'believing' what's in theirs.

    I have no issues about what you choose to believe - if they're working for you then that's good. As I've already mentioned, this is an old thread and had just about run its course (I had thought) with the last response before your own being dated March.

    I very much hope that the original questioner finds more useful information in this continuation of the discussion.
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Ethereal on Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:10 pm

    mac wrote:"If the answers you gave
    were too short and simple that others could not understand them, then
    perhaps sometimes more effort and time is needed to reach out to others."

    Let's do this step-by-step, eh? I haven't told you how you should go about what you do and in turn you don't tell me how I should behave - deal? You decide for yourself how much effort and time you deploy and I can do the same for me - deal? Agreed. Just remember that you replied to my comments first, not me to yours.

    "Additionally,
    I do not understand why you did not address the original questioner's
    query and instead concentrated on trying to disparage my answer."
    I guess you've been looking back a fair way to some earlier part of this thread but if you quote the points you're unhappy about I'll take a look-see to judge whether you personally deserve a response from me about something that didn't involve you - deal? Similarly on your accusation of disparagement except I'll definitely respond to any point you make - deal? If you had read the qoutes I was addressing you would have seen I had not mentioned modern Spiritualism nor had the original questioner and neither did the answer by another individual, just Christian Spiritualism. So why did you bring modern Spiritualism up?

    "It seems to me if your desire was to help this individual find peace with
    their struggle in their belief system, you would have told them what
    modern and traditional Spiritualism is."
    ditto all the above
    Again agreed. You don't make comments on anything I reply on and I will not make comments on anything you comment on. Shall we agree?

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:13 pm

    Ethereal wrote:
    mac wrote:"If the answers you gave
    were too short and simple that others could not understand them, then
    perhaps sometimes more effort and time is needed to reach out to others."

    Let's do this step-by-step, eh? I haven't told you how you should go about what you do and in turn you don't tell me how I should behave - deal? You decide for yourself how much effort and time you deploy and I can do the same for me - deal? Agreed. Just remember that you replied to my comments first, not me to yours.

    "Additionally,
    I do not understand why you did not address the original questioner's
    query and instead concentrated on trying to disparage my answer."
    I guess you've been looking back a fair way to some earlier part of this thread but if you quote the points you're unhappy about I'll take a look-see to judge whether you personally deserve a response from me about something that didn't involve you - deal? Similarly on your accusation of disparagement except I'll definitely respond to any point you make - deal? If you had read the qoutes I was addressing you would have seen I had not mentioned modern Spiritualism nor had the original questioner and neither did the answer by another individual, just Christian Spiritualism. So why did you bring modern Spiritualism up?

    "It seems to me if your desire was to help this individual find peace with
    their struggle in their belief system, you would have told them what
    modern and traditional Spiritualism is."
    ditto all the above
    Again agreed. You don't make comments on anything I reply on and I will not make comments on anything you comment on. Shall we agree?

    No I disagree on that proposal but I'm content that you do whatever is best for yourself.


    Last edited by mac on Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : browser problems)
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Ethereal on Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:33 pm

    No I disagree on that proposal but I'm content that you do whatever is best for yourself.[/quote]
    As you wish.

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:43 pm

    Ethereal wrote:No I disagree on that proposal but I'm content that you do whatever is best for yourself.
    As you wish.[/quote]

    deal!
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  Ethereal on Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:49 pm

    mac wrote:"Anyone
    who's looked even cursorily at 'traditional' Modern Spiritualism and
    Christian Spiritualism will have a pretty clear idea of the main
    differences.

    "The Original question was what
    I was addressing. Not the question of what is modern spiritualism."
    The original question was Had anyone been to a Christian Spiritualist
    Church and what were their feelings. I answered that. So why bring up
    modern spiritualism?

    These - if memory serves me - have been aired in this thread and elsewhere."

    My original answer had nothing to do with comparing modern Spiritualism and Christian Spiritualism. As you said that had already been addressed earlier in this thread and others. So why did you bring it up?

    In that case it would have been helpful for you to have copied that original question in for reference (agreed, but since it was at the top of this page, I figured anyone who was going to answer it, would have read the top to see what the question originally was, not assume it was an attack on modern Spiritualism.) but as I've already remarked this is is an old topic and I thought we'd just about talked it out anyway. Well then since my original comment was not on the differences between the two, Modern and Christian Spiritualism why did you bring it up?

    I don't see how defining Christian Spiritualism would be hindered by contrasting or comparing it with traditional Spiritualism.
    Because that was not the question I was addressing. It is the subject you brought up. So again I ask, 'Why did you bring it up?'
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  gilly on Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:33 pm

    Violet wrote:I went to a Christian Spiritualist church once, I felt very uncomfortable, it didn't feel right somehow and far too 'religious' if that makes sense. Anyone else been to one and what were your feelings?

    To answer the original question----Yes I have been to a 'Christian Spiritualist Church', I have also attended a couple of SNU run Spiritualist Churches, as well as several independant Spiritualist Churches.

    The only time I felt 'uncomfortable' in any of them was when a SNU edict was read out that the cross should no longer be displayed in SNU churches. For my part there was no problem, but many of the regulars were clearly unhappy and I felt for them.

    I have said before and will repeat now--any organised religeon or movement is doomed to split its following at some point. Why can we not each find our spiritual way without trying to impose our beliefs on others??

    I now attend an independant church and find it a relief compared to some of those I have attended before.

    PPLLnL

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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  mac on Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:21 pm

    There's something familiar about the style of this interrogation. Somewhat reminiscent of an earlier time, another member....
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  SpiritVoices on Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:29 pm

    Does it really make a difference whatever is displayed in a spiritualism church?

    Unless it is something that is really offensive.

    The point of visiting any spiritualist church is to show belief in spiritualism and receiving proof from loved ones that they do exist.

    Joanie


    Last edited by Joanie on Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : miss spelled word.)
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  skylarker on Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:49 pm

    . Joanie,

    I agree with you. What difference does it make? There are all sorts of Spiritualists, just as there are all sorts of Christians, and I assume all sorts of pagans. There are many Christian Spiritualists, whether the SNU likes it or not. The SNU is not the Rome of Spiritualism, even though they apparantly think they are.

    Joanie wrote:Does it really make a difference whatever is displayed in a spiritualism church?

    Unless it is something that is really offensive.

    The point of visiting any spiritualist church is to show belief in spiritualism and receiving proof from loved ones that they do exist.

    Joanie
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    Re: Christian Spiritualism

    Post  SpiritVoices on Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:59 pm

    Hi Skylarker.

    Do I know you?

    A good way of putting it. The subject of spiritualism does tend to become buried

    beneath the pathos of the SNU. I often wonder why spirit do not intervene and do something about this sad case.



    Joanie

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